[Updated for Dragonflight] Munitions - If RSV was to return

It saw decent levels of representation all the way from 3.0 through the start of WoD. Looking at its mean rep levels, it held the overall highest one out of the three hunter specs over this period.

There was really only 1 period where essentially noone played it, like Bepples said, in 6.2, where they utterly destroyed it, combined with the announcement of making ut melee.

We’re not, data from that period is.

Anyway…

…assuming I did not misinterpret you here…

:+1:

Appreciate it.

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Sorry for the late reply, thought I had already responded :confused:

I can’t say that I fully understand what you’re thinking of here, mostly as there doesn’t seem to be a precedent for [some of] these things within the class’ history. Again, though, not sure exactly what you’re after.

As for the deal with how DHs only have 2 specs, I recall the devs responding to a question somewhere, back in Legion, about how they weren’t satisfied that this 3rd option would be able to carve out a space for itself, relative to the rest of the class.

I don’t recall exactly where I saw this so I can’t really back it up. Might just be my mind playing tricks on me…

About Evokers, maybe a tank spec would be the more natural choice for a 3rd spec. In my mind, they’re probably hesitant to add even more melee dps specs. This goes for more tank specs as well(which is why they did not include one). All they’ve done with new classes is adding tank/heal/melee dps specs. DH came with tank + mdps specs, so the next class(Evoker) focusing on heal + ranged dps was the more logical approach. Having said that, I wouldn’t be against them adding more options to either of those classes.

To tie this back in with the current topic…one could argue that, if any, their focus on new specs should be towards more ranged options. Currently, the least explored option for ranged dps is towards the use of ranged weapons, as compared to spells and magic. Old SV(realised as a modern version that is) not only has a precedent within the class, and the game, the core of that spec is already there to explore more in-depth, based on modern design philosophies. Funnily enough, RSV(Munitions) provides an option for a ranged spec that could satisfy both sides of the weapon oriented(semi-physical) ranged dps, but could also include options for more magically themed abilities.

As I’ve said before, I don’t think that they should reimagine hunters to essentially become mages with bows, but for a hunter to make use of ammunition that has been previously imbued with magical properties, for the purpose of combat? Why not?


On a different note…

In terms of a spec-themed approach to interactions with Kill Shot, as a class ability, based on how the other specs do it, thoughts(open question for anyone to answer ofc)?

So that was actually where the idea came from. There were a lot of cool stories of the different archetypes of demons in the old Outland lore and apart from the ideas of overwhelming demons with a combination of energy-draining and either sheer, well-aimed force or speed of slashes and movement, that was the last that seemed something the Demon Hunters could have consumed and assimilated for their own use against the demons.

Though meant to be the least common and least obviously leveraged of the three, that sort of Demon-of-a-Thousand-Faces / probably-ate-the-souls-of-mindflayers-and-shadow-fiends Bane spec would certainly have a distinct thematic space that would not step on the toes of Havoc or Vengeance.

Natural, sure. I guess I just get annoyed by 3-specs-3-roles classes sometimes making their approach to their tank spec all too obvious or template-ish, to where, having enough tanks already, I’d be willing to risk doing something very new through a dedicated support/manipulator spec.

But yeah, with a tank, there’s a ton you could do with stacking and retributive defense, elemental combos, and whatnot, much as has occasionally been asked for as a Shaman 4th spec (Earthwarder, or the like). That’d certainly be fun, too.

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Can agree with that, in a way. Like you said, it’s a risk.

Wouldn’t say no to more class/spec options, incl others as well ofc. And again, despite the addition of Devokers, there sure is room to explore more of what there is in terms of ranged concepts. Preferably towards ranged weaponry.

Maybe. I just worry about the obvious…

“So, you can breathe fiery napalm? And have mastery over all the elements through your draconic bond? And so you choose to just… shoot people with a gun?” Or similar issues.

I'd agree that there's room for Ranged weapon users, if, say, you wanted to add a Tinker combat class or the like (though that'd mean no room for Munitions on Hunter), just can't see a place for it on Evoker.
I apologize if I misread that connection too tightly (Devoker + Ranged Weaponry).
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My bad, should’ve been more specific. I meant aside from the addition of the evoker class(and the ranged spec Devastation).

I definitely did not intend for evokers to have anything to do with ranged weapon-combat. :sweat_smile:

I guess that would depend on how you approach each class as a concept of a fantasy/identity. A tinker doesn’t need to have anything to do with the use of ranged weapons(gun, bow, or crossbow). Nor pets or traps.

Not to stray too far from the subject of this topic, but I’d imagine a tinker as more of a bombs+mech suit type-of-class. Obviously, “mech suit” wouldn’t necessarily [have to] default to something like a vehicle type; Shredder, or similar. But it could.

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Right, but it’s about the only place that I can imagine for a ranged spec that wouldn’t have that above issue (“Umm, why don’t you just use your meteor-dropping magics?”), outside of maybe a Bounty Hunter-esque spec added atop Rogue, but even that wouldn’t likely be pure(?) ranged.

For my part, I was imagining 3 specs: a tank (mech-suit), a melee (more vehicle options than just mech suit), and ranged (munitions-like, but even more tech-y).

  • And that’s only because the game doesn’t really allow for hybrid specs, else I’d do 3 specs with 6 sub-roles between them [healer, supportive ranged, and supportive melee atop tank, melee, and ranged].

Alright, end of tangent, sorry.



EDIT: So about that Evoker 3rd spec…

Seen the datamined stuff (Shadowflame spec)?

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ranged survival, specifically mid > end of mop. right around 5.3 and 5.4 especially in soo, was the best, smoothest, fun and most polished spec blizzard has ever created in any patch of any xpac hands down. and i played every class and every spec hand over fist.

my tin foil hat still remains intact on the fact that i think ranged survival was chosen to be melee because they knew it would be trash and it would get a ton of players out of the spec and hopefully out of the class. because too many people played it and they needed to dilute that.

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I Actually enjoy Survival and its the reason i ended up comming back to WoW so if they do bring back the ranged survival which i am all for as it was super fun back in the day, i hope they go the 4th tree route instead of removing melee.

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No worries. I would be happy to talk more about a tinker class(design) in a topic intended for that. Imagined in a WoW’esque style, it would probably be one that I’d be interested in playing.

It was indeed. ‘Best/fun’ ofc has some subjectivity to them, but it definitely had a polished feel and smoothness to its’ gameplay. One that I would be beyond happy to see in a modern form.

Agreed. I have nothing against current SV itself, only with how it was implemented and how they justified its implementation. If we can get old SV back as a 4th option, that would, IMO, be the ideal solution.

Not in full detail, but I’ve seen a few mentions about it. Like I said before, I’m all for more options to be added. It would also put a dent in certain arguments in previous discussions, if it was to be added that is.

Having said that, the issue with datamining can be ‘relevancy’, among other things. It might just be remnants of something that was initially planned or thought of, but have since been scrapped or shelved.

But again, I would have to read up more on the details. Either way, it’s an intriguing thought for sure.

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I decided to rework the stacking element of the base ability Black Arrow. I’ve mentioned this before, how I wasn’t entirely convinced that it would be all that fun in terms of gameplay. Now, the intent is that any repeat applications of Black Arrow, on a target where that periodic effect is already active, will instead simply roll that damage into the existing effect(dealt over a period of 12 sec). Repeat applications, done manually, will/should refresh the duration of the debuff.

I feel that this would be a positive change, for example during the major CD, when casting Explosive Shot resets the cooldown of Black Arrow. If you had a set cap of 3 stacks on the periodic effect of BA, that wouldn’t feel good as a base. I had included a talent called ‘Volatile Concoctions’ in the capstone bracket which allowed repeat applications to do the same thing as above. I just decided to make it a base function of the ability itself, and have the aforementioned talent simply add more damage on proc. It now reads:

Volatile Concoctions

When Explosive Shot deals damage to an enemy affected by Black Arrow, there’s a chance that this adds damage to the periodic damage effect of Black Arrow equal to 30% of the base effect.

The bonus damage added to the existing effect will only last for a total of 12 sec, regardless of how long the existing debuff stays active.

Pastebin import code for TTM - updated


Tangent:

It seems as if more things regarding this topic are being discovered. Still, not officially confirmed, but we’ll see…

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