[UPDATED AUG. 18] Time Runs Short: Battle for Azeroth

[Edit: Apparently the system auto-deletes quotes as redundant if you just quote the immediately proceeding post, but the point I’m talking about as having been a good point was the point made by the post right above this one.]

This is actually a good point that really should get more discussion. It’s a real rarity to see something that is RNG getting permanently removed from a loot table. It means that people who actually manage to do the task, but had the misfortune of not having RNG luck on their side to be among the few raid members who got the drops, will end up losing out on the reward for good. The obvious analogue to how Rank 4 essences drop right now are mounts. But mounts don’t get removed when an expansion ends, they just get turned into 1% drops (and over time players are able to solo those old raids).

With Blizzard deciding that they will remove Rank 4 essences permanently, is leaving the Azshara ones as RNG drops - especially in such low numbers - reasonable? (What is it, like 2-3 drops per mythic raid? And many raid members actually have more than one Rank 4 essence because all three roles have a Rank 4 essence).

And is it reasonable to lack a skip? The fight is obviously much harder than Mythic Jaina. People looking for groups to tackle it will be saved to the instance ID’s clear to her because of how mythic raid ID’s work when there are dead bosses. That’s the exact reason they created a skip to Jaina - so that people trying to farm their Jaina mounts wouldn’t get saved to instance ID’s of groups that ended up unsuccessful in the week. And Jaina’s mounts aren’t even going to disappear, while Azshara’s Rank 4 essences will.

Back to the RNG nature of the drop - you’ve got another factor when it comes to this group challenge: Azshara is not current content, but still mechanically very difficult. Organized raiding guilds are not typically the ones doing Azshara (they’re normally using their raid nights in current content - Ny’alotha). Instead, Azshara is tackled by semi-guild organized events paired with PUG activity. (Instead of a guild using a raid night on it, a person in a guild manages to convince like 6-7 buddies to come to an off-raid night effort, and the rest of the slots get filled with non-guild members).

What this translates into is something obvious - PUGs who get their Rank 4 essences will often have little incentive to stick around, attending week after week, to assist everyone else in getting their own Rank 4 essences. This isn’t to say that people who don’t reappear are always acting scummy. Sometimes they are, sometimes they aren’t - often people join PUGs randomly on one night, the PUG didn’t ask for that kind of commitment, and they shouldn’t be expected to reorganize their weekly schedule around getting lucky in a random PUG one week. The main point is this: a lot of people’s chances at getting essences don’t improve from one week to the next, because as people in the group get their essences, those people disappear and new people have to come in to replace them. (And that’s not even taking into consideration that new people have to re-learn the fight, which reduces the chance of even seeing repeat successful kills).

Maybe the overall point about QoL changes for Azshara’s drops really deserves its own thread. But it’s a good point that was made in this one that there really ought to be some kind of adjustment to how these Azshara essences are handled. (N’zoth, if his are handled the same way, also ought to be adjusted - I know there’s a lot of focus on the title achievement, and N’zoth’s essence isn’t needed for the title, but the general fact of these cosmetics getting removed makes each essence worthy of consideration in its own context).

As the initial post I quoted said, a skip to Azshara is highly justifiable so that groups trying for these essences don’t lock people to raid ID’s (the exact same reason the Jaina skip was put in).

And the best solution (also mentioned by that post I quoted) would really just be changing these essences to reward one to each raid member (guaranteed reward) instead of handling them like mount drops (2 per raid). The mount-drop-like approach for these Rank 4 essences may have made sense initially, before Blizzard made the decision that they were going to remove these things permanently, but now that we know they’re getting removed, the out-sized role RNG plays is a really bad fit for an essence that requires killing Mythic Azshara.

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So mechagon hard mount isnt going anywhere? Nice.

Exactly. After playing since 2006, i quit definitively after Legion and the removal of Mage Tower. I returned only for playing Classic. Retail is totally irrevelant for me.

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I didn’t see it but are they removing the hard mode mount and Hertz locker FOS from hard mode Mechagon?

Exactly! Setting a M Azshara group is no easy task and the dependency on RNG makes the whole process frustrating.

With the recent changes, all other essences are now deterministic rewards or can have means to increase the likehood of them dropping.

A major problem is that, even if I want to give a raid friend an essence, I’d have to be lucky to drop the one he needs for his specialization.

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Can you not remove the Essences/Mounts/Etc? Give everyone who has it already a Feat of Strength, but there is no reason that new players, or anyone who didn’t play/push this expansion, should be forever unable to acquire these items/appearances/titles. This is just going to drive away new players, and most likely current ones as well. It really will just hurt the game at this point. Make them more difficult, bring up the Mythic+ essence to Shadowlands dungeons, but leave it in the game for people who want it.

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How will we get the currency to enter visions? It’s kinda hard to imagine the assaults running in vale and uldum in the next xpac.

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Updated Aug. 18: The achievement Phenomenal Cosmic Power will no longer be obtainable once pre-patch goes live (we previously stated that this would go away once Shadowlands went live). This is due to certain Rank 4 Essences no longer being available to earn after pre-patch (e.g. Vision of Perfection).

What if you already have the Essences that go away in the pre-patch? (i.e. missing only the 100k honor one) will you be able to obtain it in the pre-patch?

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I agree with this to a degree but in my opinion certain essences will still and should still be acquirable.

If I get 2400 in SL s1 why should I not be able to purchase the r4 Conflict and finish my collection?

It is honestly insane to me that r4 Conflict is as difficult to acquire as it is, I have all of them done except this one and it is the only one that has not been nerfed in some discernible way.

The Paragons got failure protection, Azshara is old content, Keystone master became trivialized with the corruption vendor, Vision of Perfection is trivialized by being old content, Crucible got trivialized by neck scaling…

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You aren’t going to reason with them. Pvpers will get upset.

But why, instead of sorting it based upon what made sense you do a lowest common denominator approach to the whole affair to make things simpler for y’alls end?

Please, reduce the rating to get Conflict rank 4, some rank 4 essences have recieved nerfs to get them

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yes, what if you have a lot of these essences already, but just missing Azshara?

Come on! This is a very bad communication mistake that took everyone by surprise.

Make the non deterministic rewards like M Azshara a 100% drop for all the group already.

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Can you guys make Azshara drop more than 3 essences for the time being then? She’s basically already unkillable in a pug so there’s still a huge barrier for most people. I’m pretty sure this essence is going to be the only reason I can’t get it :frowning:

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Here’s a Phenomenal idea! Let it be achievable until the launch of shadowlands since all the ones going away in the prepatch are not RNG based. IE PvP, M+. The remainder of ones are rng or time gated. Just seems like a bizarre change to make suddenly.

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you don’t need the n’zoth one for this FoS, just the 8.2 essences.

No thanks really devalues the effort I put in into getting it. Every single essence is mainly just grinding something besides M Azshara which you can buy for like 700k gold.

It’s 3m gold right now and there is no devaluing the effort when you’re still getting rank 4 of everything else, what are you talking about?