This is already refuted in the part that says “we have no reason to think anything other than Y caused X”. Since, as you’ve already been told, this would affect most classes to a similar degree, but certain classes especially. The classes that would be most affected would be the classes most similar to Demon Hunter, which would be DKs, Rogues and Warlocks. Lo and behold, going into Legion, those classes were the second, third and fourth classes that lost the most players. But since Demon Hunter doesn’t play like Hunter in any way, we shouldn’t expect Hunters to lose the most players.
Furthermore, melee SV would cause Hunters to lose even less players than other classes, since those who would originally change to Demon Hunter (because they prefer melee) would be less encouraged to do so because melee Hunter was now an option. So not only are Hunters one of the least likely classes to lose players to DH, there is the additional added factor of melee SV that would cause us to lose even less players to a melee class change. Yet, what do we see? We see TONS of players still leaving the class. The addition of melee SV makes this explanation even less likely.
I know right, Ranged Survival Crusaders are stubborn and just like the scarlet crusade in WoW. They think everyone that ain’t them is an enemy, that they all tell lies only to put you down, that they hate ranged survival so much they’d do anything…
Based off of the changes made to this class in particular compared to other classes and from that, based on how much less max level rep we saw, again, compared to all other classes.
You bring up arguments like “people just got bored and quit/rerolled” or “because IRL” etc.
You essentially bring up counter-arguments that affect every single class in the same way. Yet you claim that said reasons affected the Hunter class on a level waaay up from that of all the other classes?
You claim that it could just have been a coincidence that we lost so many while no other classes even came close. Which, like Spinner said, we don’t have the specific reasons/answers from every single player.
But in context, that is one HELL of a coincidence. It is muuch more likely that one particular highly controversial change in design caused the aformentioned results.
Let's do a comparison(STORY TIME!)...
Imagine if you had X coffee shops in an area and suddenly, regulations come in so that they all have to make changes to their business that ultimately somehow would cause certain customers to no longer go to the one shop they liked previously.
Depending on how each shop made changes in order to adapt to said new regulations, some customers might just switch which coffee shop they go to.
But then, one shop in particular, they decide in the middle of all this that they should stop selling certain brands of coffee/certain types of coffee drinks.
In fact, that shop has now taken away roughly 30% of the original assortment.
Instead, they are now going to replace those types of coffe-drinks with cocoa-based drinks(chocolate).
Suddenly, that shop in particular appears to have lost waay more customers than all the other shops did. It does get new customers ofc, as some do like chocolate very much you know.
But still…it lost way more customers than the other shops did.
Could it be a coincidence that this shop in particular lost so many customers? Yes, ofc.
Could all those former customers just’ve become bored with coffee? Yep…
But what is the most likely reason?
Isn’t it waay more likely that those former customers who probably prefered the types of coffee-based drinks which that shop then took away/stopped selling, left because of it? That those customers left because they could no longer get the drinks they wanted from that shop?
I claim that all those reasons are valid, could be the main or minor reason. No one can tell truly what the real reason is.
You’re still trying to falsely claim that Y reason did more than any others despite having 0 solid argument to back it up, 0 data to “valid” back it up.
That thinking belongs to the conspiracy groups. Assuming things without proper back up.
All players are humans, it ain’t because you play X class that it means you’re special or think a certain way. You can like more than two things… players loving ranged can just as much love melee. All humans have problems in life they deal with. All the reasons I state are valid, all of them could be the major one. So unless you go out and gather a poll or w.e from all those that left hunter class back then, you will -no one will- ever know why they lost a lot.
How about the fact that most players who play as hunters do so because they prefer the focus it has on ranged combat(tied to the use of ranged weapons)?
And that isn’t even my statement. That’s Ion’s statement…
It’s quite funny how you are so adamant at trying to argue against the concept of “Cause and Effect” when talking about analytics.
I guess my example/story in the previous reply was too…something.
Let’s try to make it more clear then…
If you in WoW have 1 class that focuses on a type of gameplay unlike that of any other class in the entire game. Like with the Hunter class and it’s focus on ranged weapons.
That class used to have 3 different options for how players could approach that general fantasy. How to specialize in the use of said ranged weapons.
Some preferred to focus more on the pet side of the class, with the weapon serving as support. This being Beast Mastery.
Some, preferred to focus almost entirely on the weapon itself, through the fantasy of becoming sharpshooters. This: Marksmanship.
While others, they preferred to focus on the ammunition and traps tied to the class. They liked how you could focus on augmentation and enhancements. This then being the old SV(RSV).
If you then take one of those 3 options away from players, the obvious effect would be that the players who liked that 3rd option, if they don’t like either of the other 2 options, then they’d probably quit.
Why?
Because no other class in the game provides the general fantasy tied to this specific class(Hunter). None.
You can argue “but…coincidence” all you want to. It’s not exactly a stretch to be making the deduction based on what happened, for that to have been a major factor to how the class lost so many more players than other classes did at the time.
As, those other classes did not have 1 unique approach to the class fantasy completely removed, to the point of where not even the most basic functions of the spec/option remained.
Yes, but all of those reasons would apply equally or very similarly to all classes, not just Hunters. That is what your reasons do not account for. Hunters lost way way more players than all other classes. Unless you are resorting to arguing that it was just one, massive, excessively unlikely coincidence, then there must be an explanation exclusive to the Hunter class. The deletion of ranged Survival fits the bill perfectly, and you’ve yet you provide an alternative.
I am trolling just because I hold certain opinions? lol, go back to Twitter.
Hunter lost % from legion.
% of each class will have Main, alts, inactive, banks, farmers, RP characters. Hunter may have a slightly higher numbers of farmers.
Reasons: Unknown.
Data: None.
Possible reasons:
New Class
Boredom of Hunter class
Changing class for raid’s demand
Life issue, cannot continue game
Was merely an alt, deleted to make place for something else
Place holder character for name now deleted to be used.
Small chance of Survival change*
Legion as a xpac didn’t feel good, lacked content.
X reason that has nothing to do with classes.
And much more.
*Note, in most case, players who were found unhappy about a rework / change didn’t quit the game, but simply use the other spec or rerolled to a new class, while still keeping the hunter.
End of Story.
To claim anything else, or a specific reason, is to lie to the others and/or attempt to manipulate them to support your cause.
Back to the original topic of this thread:
No major changes are coming with hunters. They will be playing similar to what we have in BFA… with some slight improvement. Which for some cases (MM Hunter) is a good one. -so far, anything can still change-. But the moving AimShot isn’t needed, sure a pain sometimes… but I’d suggest more to lower the cast from 2.5 to 2 seconds.
I do not enjoy BM, so cannot comment on it.
Survival doing good, missing some numbers tweaking thats all. They have good amount of tools at their disposal as well. They are unpruned old ranged abilities, but I’m sure we’ll be able to cast them like poison sting. Using the hand crossbow. (But having both slots open like old times, would certainly be even greater)
OMG - all of your reasons would apply equally to any other class, except for the SV change. But you say definatively with no proof, “Small chance of Survival change*” and " * Note, in most case, players who were found unhappy about a rework / change didn’t quit the game, but simply use the other spec or rerolled to a new class, while still keeping the hunter."
What a hypocrite. Extra ironic that he didn’t read my response here:
If you have an actual alternative explanation, then provide it. If you cannot, then I shall kindly ask you to stop trolling these forums. Remember, the explanation must be exclusive to the Hunter class and cannot equally or similarly apply to other classes. That is the key.
That’s what happened to me. I quit for three years. I tried to work with other classes, but couldn’t make the switch.
A funny thing happens when you quit; you lose access to the forums. You can read them, but you can’t say anything. When the change first happened, there was a ton of feedback. At that time you were allowed to down-vote posts (a feature I wish they still had), and it was the first time I ever saw negative posts about anything up-voted hundreds and thousands of times.
I’m sure a lot of those people quit like I did. I related to most of them. People were heartbroken. Not mad, heartbroken. There is a huge difference between those feelings. It was a devastating change for a lot of people in the Hunter community. I had been angry plenty of times, but I was too sad to feel anger yet. Thank God there was so much compassion in the forums at the time. I don’t think I could have taken the kind of trolling RSV people get nowadays - mostly from non-hunters and the MSV crowd. MSV people should be ashamed of themselves for trolling people over this. Ion should have been fired. Those changes cost Blizzard a TON of money (it looks like Classic might have save his butt though). There is absolutely no doubt about that.
Not that most of the MSV give a crap, but that’s why I’m still here three years later pleading for them to return the spec I played for a decade. It is mind-boggling they haven’t rolled it back already. They have the data. They know Spec Identity was a failure. But somehow they are sticking with their Spec Identity guns when it come to hunters. There are no words.
Edit: I want to reiterate something here. Blizzard made a change so devastating, there was compassion in the forums. Think about that.
Yup, same thing happened to me. I gave it a shot, I really did. I got my Hunter to 110, telling myself the whole way that it will be better at level cap. Nope. Tried different toons. Got my Rogue and Shaman to 110, but it wasn’t the same. I played that Hunter since Wrath, and suddenly swapping didn’t feel right. So I quit, and I’ve been watching the game ever since waiting for changes to fix the class that never came. Now there are people trolling the Hunters forums deriding anybody who wants ranged SV returned.
I just wish I could play my Hunter on retail again, but I just can’t do it. I don’t want to taint my view of my character and the things I’ve done in game with them by forcing myself to play something I have zero engagement with. Some of the trolls tell me it has nothing to do with the Hunter changes, and that I have just ‘outgrown’ the game, but I am playing and enjoying Classic, so that obviously isn’t the case.
I forced to play my hunter in legion, actually only class to get all tower skins, but in bfa just get to 120 on hunterand rep farm. Sl i dont even know now. Idk if i want to keep on with shammy or reroll again. Also same i made hunter on classic which really brought back some bc days though the pet happiness bar seems to deplete quicker than i remembered. But i just dont got desire to level him to 60 in sl, i kind of do cause i play archer class in every other mmo it just feels like current version is least fun vs others. Pets i love but that’s only enjoyment i get from it.
Again, the only one of those examples you provided which could explain why this class in particular lost so much more max level representation, compared to all other classes, the only one is:
All the other ones would affect other classes in the same way.
No, it’s basic deduction based on what changes were made and what most players want from the class.
Why would you get soo emotional over a video game? This isn’t real life, seriously strange… I understand getting mad for losing world first, or your friend getting disconnected on a win in arena that would have gotten you a new rating you never had… But this is life and things change all the time, why be that upset over a video game?
I am however glad you had support through the forums, but on the other hand, I’m worried in the fact that you “needed” it.
This i can agree with you about, this is just my opinion but I never enjoyed the “spec” identity either. I do get that alot of people enjoy it, but I’m not one of them.
