The only evidence that anyone can provide is speculation based on the information we have. So at this point why don’t we just stop arguing about something that apparently NONE of us can prove?
Nobody could prove anything even with Blizzard’s internal data. Heck, even if we polled every single Hunter player at the time as to why they either quit playing Hunter or not, we still couldn’t prove anything. Somebody could just say they were lying. It’s all a matter of reasonable doubt. For example, if such polls took place, saying that they were lying and to throw the polls out would be unreasonable doubt.
We are in a similar circumstance now. Given that we know that Hunters faced a huge loss of players while all other classes suffered a much lower loss of players, it is reasonable to conclude that whatever caused such loss was primarily influenced by something specific to the Hunter class. This narrows it down a lot, and it is reasonable to suggest that deleting Survival would be the most likely cause of this. There really isn’t any explanation, that has been brought forward, that is specific to Hunters and cannot be equally or similarly applied to other classes.
Fervently doubting these conclusions for no valid reason, while providing no alternative explanation, and instead demanding that it was all one big coincidence, is unreasonable.
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The only unreasonable thing for us is to keep on talking about the same thing. I understand your point of view, I do, but once again, your post is just bringing it up again. All I’m saying is let’s as a hunter class move onto more helpful topics, like updating the hunter class.
Why, how, for whatever reason RSV disappeared isn’t helping us now. it’s just keeping us distracted from the class moving forward.
The class would move forward if ranged SV was returned. Melee SV would improve as well, as it could now focus exclusively on melee. I can’t think of a single better more positive change that the Hunter class could go through.
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Yeah it would be biggest class improvement since, before wod. It would bring something that would offer something great and bring back veterns, while also adding something new for newer players, plus they could expand on top of it making it even better.
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The topic of ‘the return of RSV’ is a part of what many players want for the class in the future.
Not everyone likes the idea of RSV, fair enough, but that doesn’t actually mean that the topic in itself automatically becomes less ‘helpful’ compared to other suggestions/points of feedback.
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I knew this question was coming.
It’s simple really. When you spend years building something and it’s suddenly destroyed, it’s an emotional experience. I don’t think it matters if it’s tangible or not.
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I don’t think Spawnofgoat was around for that deeply interesting discussion you and Ghorak held, using Warcraftgraphs from WoD and now to show the percentage of increased/decreased number of players for each class.
It was very interesting, and I think it’d be a nice reminder for us. 
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Indeed, I’ll make it brief since Spawn seems far more reasonable than they who shall not be named.
This link shows us the % of level capped Hunters out of the total population of the playerbase back near the end of WoD (12.7%):
https://web.archive.org/web/20160609175121/http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes
This link shows us the % of level capped Hunters out of the total population of the playerbase a bit less than a year later in Legion (9.9%):
https://web.archive.org/web/20170519225904/http://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes
This link shows us the % of level capped Hunters out of the total population of the playerbase right now nearing the end of BfA (8.6%):
https://www.worldofwargraphs.com/global-stats/classes
Hunters dropped in representation by a LOT going into Legion from WoD, and have continued to drop even in BfA. It has come to a point where we have gone from the most popular class in the game to the fifth most popular. We lost ~4.1% of our relative playerbase (4.1% of total players among all classes stopped playing Hunter), while the class that lost the second most was Death Knights losing ~1.6% (which makes sense since Demon Hunter would have pulled more players from DKs than anything else). Since Hunters lost far more players than every other class, and most reasons as to why Hunters would have left are shared with all other classes (changing to DH, not liking new xpac, irl things, dislike for changes to a spec, etc.). Therefore we are left to conclude that it is likely that something occurred that caused Hunters to lose disproportionately way more than all other classes, and that whatever it was was exclusive to the Hunter class. Blizzard deleting ranged Survival is far and away the biggest change that Blizzard has ever made to a class, and was met with great controversy and disagreement at the time. There is nothing else apparent, that is exclusive to the Hunter class, that could explain such a large disparity. That is why I believe that the massive drop in the Hunter playerbase can be primarily explained by Blizzard deleting ranged SV.
In case you were wondering, the total % loss of playerbase that each class besides Demon Hunter has experienced between the end of WoD and now is as follows:
Druid: 0%
Paladin: -0.1%
Warrior: -1%
Death Knight: -1.6%
Priest: -1.4%
Mage: -0.6%
Rogue: +0.8%
Warlock: -1.1%
Shaman: -1%
Monk: +0.3%
Hunter: -4.1%
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It is interesting seeing this data. Although we will never truly know, based on the evidence available, I would say two factors played the biggest role in the hunter numbers dropping.
- Loss of RSV.
- Complete change in all three specs to Legion game design.
Once again, I dislike assuming, but given the evidence, what else can we conclude?
Given the evidence we could surmise that these two factors are probably the main reasons for the drop in hunter numbers in such great quantity. Obviously we will never truly know, but based on what you’ve posted I’d have to lean more in the direction you all are pointing to.
P.S. I’m not against RSV and never have been, just gets old seeing the same 2-4 people arguing over “facts” we can’t actually prove 
I would be all for Blizz adding 4 specs to hunter. I do however enjoy MSV even though it’s not perfect. BUT I think that only bringing back RSV wouldn’t solve hunters issues.
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MM needs, something? I dunno but I personally haven’t enjoyed MM in a very long time.
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MSV is a fun concept, but blizz needs to buckle down and decide what they really want from the spec.
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BM well we know how BM has been, usually the go to raiding spec, at least the last two expansions I think? it’s powerful, has short bursty CD’s, but I personally wouldn’t describe it as fun or interactive. I don’t know what they could do to make BM more fun for me, but I would like more dmg to come from the hunter as well.
I get it, it’s the “beast spec” but should the hunter still not contribute? I wish it was like a 50/50 between hunter and pet.
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Ain’t that the truth. I have been a MM hunter since vanilla. I stopped playing my hunter in Legion because I couldn’t stand the RNG of MM in Legion.
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Yep agreed, I only played it toward the end as I only really got some basic gear on my hunters and did some LFR and what not. But man, that RNG and sidwinders, very strange thing to change MM to…
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Didn’t say that.
You’re reading comprehension isn’t my problem.
See above.
How else am I supposed to interpret:
I gave that piece of broken english my best shot. If you refuse to clarify what it did mean, then I will continue to think it means exactly what I interpreted it to mean.
So then you can’t show how I lack reading comprehension.
So then you can’t show how I am projecting either.
If you want to accuse me of lacking reading comprehension, or projecting, I am going to ask you to demonstrate such. You didn’t even attempt to do so, so I am left to conclude that you are making things up, and just want to hurl baseless insults at people even if they don’t make any sense.
Please contribute to the discussion if you are going to post in this thread.
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Nothing got destroyed. Unless you deleted your hunter and never played it. It has evolved, changed but its still there. All class gets a slight or big change at every xpac… so in the end no one will have the same thing as what it used to be.
I’ve state multiple reason. We would want to assume its those two reason due to the most obvious thing we all “remember” or “saw”.
If you take the data that the crusader is using, you cannot really determinate anything.
Last Database Update : 05 Jun 2016 - Level 100 players
A month-ish before pre patch for new xpac. A time where numbers will go high due to hype.
Last Database Update : 20 May 2017 - Level 110 players
3/4 year after release date. May, 2 months after last major patch. Content was done, the dead time was there… legion already lack end game to keep players busy. All numbers would had gone done, Legion hype over, no content boredom, etc. Nothing that shows the changes to hunter was a big reason. I remember servers were pretty dull and quiet.
Last Database Update : 20 Dec 2019 - Level 120 players
We’re in BFA 8.2, Battle for Beta, content. Its been a long time since 8.2 came up and everyone got done with Nazjatar and mechagon.
Unless you can give me some data taken 1-2month after legion release… maybe we could assume Hunter change was the cause (Even though it still wouldn’t be solid data). But right now, I would assume more the xpac content was the issue.
Here’s another take. I took I put it all in a chart to see the changes:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/17l1RnT0gFNd0afJyUOII8Ns7pm--L54BvrMtLgRn_do/edit?usp=sharing
Now those a just numbers without context, using the 3 links.
Did hunter lost most going legion ? Yea, but not really a lot more compared to others. DH sure drained a lot from all.
You could say they lost a lot going into BFA, but you cant say its because of Survival change… that was already done a long time ago. So thats out of the possible reasons.
At the sametime… is these numbers limited to 1 per account? Where the most played is taken. Probably not, most likely taking all capped levels. So if ppl decided not to level an alt going from one xpac to another, thats misleading info. Worst for people leveling multiple characters of the same class. Which a lot of you does.
Like me for example, in WoD I level every class to 100, going legion I didn’t and in BFA even less.
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You’ve stated multiple reasons that would affect all classes, not reasons that disproportionally affect the hunter class.
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Why do you keep thinking I say its only for hunters? OF COURSE IT AINT JUST FOR HUNTERS IT AFFECTS ALL CLASS.
Can you not read? ALL CLASS, so yes hunter are also affected by it…
How is deleting your Hunter classified as ‘destroying’ but Blizzard deleting ranged Survival not ‘destroying’?
You do realize that we are comparing the Hunter class representation to all other classes, right? Like, the 4.1% drop is the relative player population of Hunters compared to all other classes. Is there something you are missing about this? Lulls in expansions and content have no reason to impact Hunters substantially more than any other class. I feel like a broken record having to repeat myself so many times with you: the reason for the substantially larger loss of Hunter players must be exclusive to the Hunter class.
As I’ve already explained, Death Knights, Rogues and Warlocks are expected to have lost the most players to Demon Hunters because they were the classes that either either filled a similar fantasy or played most similarly to Demon Hunters. Hunters on the other hand, despite the name, are very different in fantasy and playstyle compared to Demon Hunters. So we should expect them to have lost fewer players than those three classes, yet they lost much more.
On the contrary, people like me can easily explain the continued loss of Hunters players. I leveled my Hunter to 110 in Legion because I thought it would get better, but it didn’t, so I quit and didn’t level my Hunter in BfA. Again, this can be due to the negative changes to MM and BM too, but other classes also experienced negative changes so they alone cannot explain. The loss of Hunter players was likely still being felt going into BfA before of the Hunter players who tried to play anyway in Legion.
Furthermore, the continued loss must be due to something, as even the loss going from Legion to BfA was greater than the loss most classes experienced going into Legion when a new class was introduced! Do you have a alternative explanation that is exclusive to the Hunter class?
Yes, and since not all classes lost as much as Hunters, therefore those explanations cannot account for the full loss of Hunter players. You can argue that perhaps a third (which would have been 0.9%, still a higher loss than many other classes) of Hunters quit for those reasons, but you’re left with the other two thirds that you cannot explain that still need an explanation.
5 Likes
Thats for you lil Timmy the crusader.
Already responded to it in my edit in the post above.
1 Like