Update Hunter Pls

Classes Hunter
102

Ofc you can use current data that shows specific types of content.

Why not?

You cannot use it as a basis for any claims of popularity towards all types of content in the game. But since noone here has done/attempted this, your argument is still as flawed.

Can you use said data for claims of popularity(due to the fun-factor), for all periods? Like when we see spec representation going through the roof? No, ofc not. And again, that’s not what we are doing.

If you think that, that is on you, not on us.

But like Bepples pointed out, RSV wasn’t the top performing spec in SoO, and still, it saw more representation than BM did at the time, despite BM being the top performing spec.

Neither spec was vastly more difficult to play than the other one, at that time.

Darke tried to blame it on “pet pathing issues”. Although, pet pathing was the same throughout all of MoP and even before that. If it wasn’t such a big factor prior to SoO, it wouldn’t have been one during it either. And no, SoO wasn’t massively more punishing towards pets than the previous tiers were.

And yeah, despite this, RSV was still played a lot more.

Exactly.

Again no.

Because with the other more specific data, we at least know that the spec in question is being played in the way it should.

Something you cannot know if you look at the 120-data/global data.

Aren’t all 3 of these the same reason?

-Bored and changed class/quit.
-Wanted to explore something new(ergo less interested in current).
-Quit main to play something new(again, bored).

The data on it’s own wouldn’t show that no. But since we also know what happened at the time with all classes…
Combine that with what the data for all classes shows then, it becomes more clear.

I recall someone blabbering about needing “context” when evaluating numbers. The specific changes for all classes going into Legion, are exactly that. Context…

Precisely.

I believe he has called us both “anti-MSV’s” along with “crusaders” not too long ago.

Ooh, the irony…

That’s quite an accusation.

Care to back it up in some way?

Stop calling us trolls since you apparently have no idea what forum trolls do…

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103

I speak only truth. Don’t like, stop always acting like one.

The rude and trolling part.

104

Based on what ? Thin air? All I saw from the crusader is a youtube video showing nothing. The oldest I could find on that famous wowgraph was hellfire, even there survival was lowest representation.

Or DH class a super demanded class, or ppl quitting game, or changing to somethign different, or bored of hunter and yes, or survival change. Nothing can say that the survival change was the massive / main cause. Could be the lowest reason. No one knows.

Except high end content is people going mainly for most optimal class and not most fun one. It aint because survival isnt a lot present in Mythic raiding that it means its boring/hated. It just means that their numbers are not tweaked good enough.

LFR, Heroic, Normal, Low Mythic, Reg Dungeon, Wpvp, Non Rated BG people will play more what they like.

3 different reason, they could all have the same motive of boredom like they can all have 3 different one. Forced to change for M Raiding, interested in seeing other class, new class hype. Doesnt mean they are bored. Doesn’t mean they wont go back to hunter.

It becomes people “assuming” reasons and etc while not being 100% about it.

~ If the hat fits you.
Crusader A did it in attempt to say current survival is a unplayed spec no one loves.
Crusader B is making up numbers saying it was all current survival’s fault.

Plenty example, some are old now (2-3month ago)

No you ain’t a troll. Just a guy that want something back that you lost years ago, really badly. 4th spec is often your suggestion. Thats it.

Some of you might troll back saying im anti ranged survival, but that’s just “assuming”. My hunter was my main during that time, along side enhancement shaman. Love it. I did stop my shaman after it drastic change, I continued the SV since I do enjoy the new version.

Would it be fun to have it as a 4th spec? Sure, good memories, but I know it wouldn’t be the same at all. The game has evolved and some of their skill set would need to change as well.

There’s reason I said as to why Blizzard wouldn’t do it.

I personally think added more spec in the game isn’t healthy for it. Maybe it’d be fine for WoW due to its number of players, but having seeing it in different MMORPG… it kills specs. Its impossible to balance, you can get close to it but never will have that perfection. Having too many spec / class increase the gap between high and low. So much that at every change you need to change spec / class in order to take part of anything.

The best thing to do would be to somewhat fuse MM and old Ranged SV. It could create something really fun.

105

None of these things are unique to the hunter class.

DH would have drawn people from all classes, not just hunters.
People quitting would happen across all classes, not just hunters.
People would get bored of their class across all classes.

When looking at data and trying to determine the cause of an outlier, in this case the massive hunter drop compared to all other classes, factors that occur across all classes are not likely to be the cause. You can’t just look at the data for hunters and ignore all the other classes and then say the data lacks context, because you are deliberately ignoring the rest of the data.

When you take into account all the factors that would be common across all classes, all classes should have about the same drop/gain. When there is an outlier, then you have to start looking at what happened to that specific class to cause such a difference in that class.

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106

No one but you is saying that. So I dont know where you are even going with this.

107

The graph goes back to early 2013, so no, hellfire isn’t the earliest it shows…

HFC came out in June 2015.

Sure mate, keep telling yourself that the reason hunters lost a lot more max level character representation compared to other classes, from one expansion to the next, was for the same general reasons that affected all other specs in the same ways.

So the fact that SV on several occasions since it became a melee spec has been the top performer, and still hasn’t seen barely any rep in mythic raiding, this fact does not matter here or?

Sure…

Link them…

Your personal claim here means nothing for this.
“Crusader A/Crusader B”? Very solid basis you got there…

Did not reply to you with that one…

How?

Ofc it would not be the exact same version as we had in, for example WoD, but you could easily take the core of the old RSV and then further build on it so it still plays much like it did back then.

It’s a fantasy-MMORPG, it should be impossible to balance.

This is assuming they never try to improve on how to make balance changes, assuming they never learn from past systems and how those affects classes/specs.

Yeah sure, it’s true that we will never achieve perfect balance, or due to new systems or design changes being implemented, we will every now and again see “screw-ups” where balance is way off.

That’s just part of the fact that it is an MMO.

If you are looking to always have perfect balance, or even if you’re just putting balance high up on priorities of what you want to see from the game, then an MMO probably isn’t the one you should be playing.

The only way a game such as this would be easy/easier to balance, is if they rework all abilities/effects/systems/mechanics in general to work similar to everyone, affect everyone the same way.

In other words: Quite a sh1tty MMO experience.

It would cause the same problems as it did with Druids in Cata before they split Feral in two.

Different playstyles cannot be merged together with the expectation of them being functional to any satisfying degree.

You’d have to severely trim one or both of those playstyles in order to make them remotely suitable to one another.

Also, isn’t the argument from many that we should not ask for MSV to be heavily altered?

Why shouldn’t that apply to both MM and BM as well?

No, I agree with him/her as well.

Besides, out of all classes, hunter players would most likely not be the ones with the desire to opt for a class like DH. Based on their past/current differences in themes, fantasies, and just mechanics tied to gameplay.

And no, this does not include all hunters, obviously…

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108

And keep telling yourself it was cause of survival change. We both are right and both are wrong. No one will ever know.

Forgot to put the word “not” in there while typing. So RSV or MSV, it still has been lowest rep in mythic raiding since.

I dont need to name the crusaders, not link their lies. You’ve seen it but dont want to acknowledge it.

If the game was purely PvP or PvE, that’d be a whole different thing and much easier to balance. There’s also a factor they cannot control, tune, balance… and thats players.

Not looking for that, but the more you add the bigger the game. You dont want perfect balance, you want a smaller gap.

Except old SV and MM werent so different… Worked the same way but you had one doing physical dmg and another with dots / magic dmg…

Agree on what? Hes the only one saying that… I never said anything that it was exclusive to hunter only.

Based on what ? Your personal thoughts? Are you mind reading all players knowing which one always wanted to be Illidan and those that didn’t? Because I love / main hunter I would never have level and geared a prot warrior for raiding?

109

I got that you missed the word “not” in your reply earlier.

Still, no, they have on several occasions managed to make MSV the top performing Hunter spec of all, incl parts of Legion, along with Uldir now in BfA.

And for much of BfA, all 3 hunter specs have been fairly close to one another, performance-wise.

Since when? Launch of Legion? Yeah, for obvious reasons.

Prior to HFC? Not true.

I’m simply acknowledging your false claim/lie.

If you accuse someone here of tampering with/manipulating data, be sure to back that up with something other than just your words…

It sounds like you have two in mind so…be sure to bring up multiple examples.

My point exactly. Along with some other factors ofc.

Adding more does not automatically mean a bigger gap. It just means that the effort required to achieve some sort of balance will be slightly higher.

Heck, damage-wise, for much of BfA is when we’ve seen some of the best balance between the 3 specs. Despite it being expansion number 7(8 incl Vanilla).
Note that this is despite of the dev team playing catch-up for most of BfA with all these e.g. systems. Meaning less time to focus on balancing things, like classes/specs/individual talents, etc.

I’m sorry, I thought we were talking about a design fitting of the game today? With deeper exploration of what individual fantasies/themes can bring.

Also, “worked the same way” ?

Either they did, or they did not. If one is designed around heavy-hitting abilities and burst, while the other focuses on DoTs and consistency then, by definition that means that they did not “work the same way”.

Read…

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110

HFC +
If you want to go deeper… fine. But thats super far away now. You’re better off waiting for legacy server to come up for you to play that old sv.

It was already responded, and told they were modding the data. Not just by me. I do not need to repeat myself. The said individuals just kept replying in anger. Only one has stopped somewhat doing it, the other is still hardcore on it.

So based on your personal thoughts and logic. Fine, but hardly proves anything. No solid proof exist to support that claim, coincidence could be said. A dead case unless you have solid argument / proof to support that claim.

111

Yes, and that’s due to how they changed it to a melee spec.

Simply put, most Hunters do not want to play a melee spec(while playing as hunters).

Where are you even going with this? Have you forgotten what you talked about earlier?

They were accused of doing so, yet no basis for how was provided…

So, such claims mean nothing in context.

So you’re actually arguing that, out of all classes, the reason Hunters lost a lot more max level representation from players, is because of the addition of the DH class?

Can you honestly say with confidence that(looking at their respective designs and fantasies), Hunter players were the most likely to reroll to DH?

I’m not saying that no former Hunters did reroll to DH. I’m arguing that the addition of the DH class was not what served as a major factor to why Hunters lost so much more max level representation than that of any other class in the entire game.

I’m sure Hunters lost some players due to the addition of DHs. But you’re(and a few others) the one who uses DH as a potential argument for why we lost so many, going into Legion.

Why?

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112

I’m only rude to people who were rude to me first. Sorry if you don’t like that but idc.

As for the trolling, how exactly am I a troll for giving legitimate class feedback and suggestions as to how to improve the class in a way that will upset nobody? Trolling is intended to get a rise out of people. Who am I trying to get a rise out of exactly? The people that hate Hunter players and don’t want us to enjoy our class?

Because, since those things aren’t unique to Hunters, then if those were the reasons for the massive loss in Hunter players, then we should expect similarly large losses to the playerbases of all the other classes. But since we don’t see that, and Hunters lost way more players than anyone else, we can conclude that those aren’t the primary reason for the loss in Hunter players. There has to be something else, something more significant.

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113

No, we have nothing that shows why.

Maybe, maybe not. Who are you to say that because they played Hunter since the start of WoW that it means they never wanted to be something like Illidan?

Could be, could not be. No one will knows we have nothing shows. Only assumptions and made up theories.

As said, it is one of the reason. You simply ignored the rest saying its all the same.

114

When did I ever say this?

Read that quote you made there again…

Yeah…sure.

I didn’t ignore anything…

You’re the one trying to make an argument of how changes/additions that affected all classes/players in the same way somehow could’ve applied to Hunters waaay more than all other classes.

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115

Its the player that take the decision, not the class. All that can be said is “coincidence”. We dont have a data, poll that ask ppl their reason.

116

Are you seriously making the ‘coincidence’ argument?

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117

He is yes.

It’s funny how he argues we have no way of knowing why we(the class) was affected more than all others, while at the same time making claims and assumptions just a few posts up here that are nothing more than random nonsens.

Especially ironic since he made such claims based off of links provided that he obviously haven’t even managed to interpret the right way.

And more…

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118

Because there is no way of knowing. I could start making random claims too, but you wouldnt believe it… yet you do and believe it. Random nonsense indeed.

Really now?

Yes, more false claims, missuses of information to come from the crusader in an attempt to prove something.

You can assume it was the reason, but you cannot claim it really was. Or I might as well make up crap too!

Just in “99% of hunters love the current survival, but a small 0.1% hate it and want old survival back , while 0.8% answered Hilary polls dont lie”

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119

So not only are you a troll but you’re delusional as well.

Great.

If you can’t handle the options of others the you shouldn’t be on da forums.

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120

Assuming that you mean ‘opinions’ of others, and not ‘options’ of others, what exactly made you think I couldn’t handle the opinions of others? Is treating people the way that they treat you a sign of not being able to handle the mere things that they say?

I suppose taking off the kid gloves when dealing with haters is deemed ‘rude’ now.

Do you understand the difference between random claims and reasoned deductions? Seriously, do you?

Tell me the difference between the following two statements:

  1. Since we observe X, and we know that Y leads to X, and we have no reason to think anything other than Y caused X, it is likely that Y occurred and caused X.

  2. X happened because my pet turtle pooped on the rug.

Can you spot which one is ‘random’ and which one is reasoned?

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121

Hey crusader, been ignoring you for a while now… still cant think? Hes your logic applied !

“Because of the addition of the new sought out class Demon Hunter, a large portion of the Hunter community have rerolled to that class. That explains why their number dropped more than other class. More hunter players were waiting for DH compared to the others.”

So because Y (DH) was added, X (The hunters) decided to change class. So we can conclude Y is the main reason as to why X’s number dropped a lot. Z (The melee SV) was only a small portion of the cause, since X moved to Y most while the rest of X stayed X because they love X. )

Wanna keep on more nonsense?

Here’s a cookie, now go back into the parc to play with your little friends. Back to ignoring you, bye :slight_smile: