The way a discussion tends to work is that there is a back and forth. You presented your arguments for why you don’t think we can use the data, and I provided my refutation to show that we indeed can use the data. Typically you would then respond with why you think my refutations are not correct, rather than just saying that I “can’t think” or whatever it was that you just said.
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You can rest easy. Blizzard always does exactly what they say their going to do.
Not entirely sure how you got to this conclusion as, it’s flawed….
Yep, and I’m still waiting for you to respond to my question I asked you months ago regarding this.
To repeat:
When have one of us here ever claimed that the data we’ve linked is proof of SVs popularity in history, covering all types of content in the entire game ?
All people have actually done(and if you don’t believe me, go back and check those posts yourself, they are still there), is claiming the popularity of SV throughout history, based on the type(s) of content tied to the specific data provided.
Just to make it clear…
When someone says:
Spec X was generally popular and at times even the most popular spec in the game.
And they include a link containing data for, again as an example, mythic raiding(or any difficulty/other type of content included in said link).
What that person has done here, is claiming the popularity of a particular spec compared to all other specs/classes in the game for that type of content.
It doesn’t mean that their claim was directed towards all types of content in the entire game…
Why is this differentiation important? Well…
When talking spec popularity, not all parts of the game should even be considered.
Examples:
Why should the site take into account alts/inactive players/people logged off while in X spec?
Oh and btw, the global statistics showing specific specs, do include the above examples you provided. All of them. Which is why your claims in the past of how “Global Statistics are a better basis compared to content specific”, are also flawed.
Alts? Do you mean low level alts? Lower levels hold no relevance here as in most cases, that data would be based on characters that don’t even get to experience the gameplay included in the spec, in it’s complete form. They don’t even play the “full” spec.
Why, as an example, should inactive characters be included in data showing popularity?
By definition, the data showing specs in specific types of content is better here as those characters are most certainly actively being played.
Why should we rely on data that shows characters where they have simply logged out while in X spec? It doesn’t show us anything relevant. It doesn’t even show us that they actually play with that spec.
Should we take Transmog farmers or Pet battlers into account? Characters only used for managing professions(or in other words, people logged out while in X spec)? Etc.
I mean…whatever spec they have chosen doesn’t really matter considering they aren’t really using it for what it’s designed to do.
If you meant something different with your post about alts/inactives etc, feel free to correct me and we’ll look into that instead.
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Fair enough. I try not to attribute to malice what can be explained by ignorance. I also try not to validate trolls. It appears I’ve failed.
All current available data cannot be used to determine, class popularity, reason class drops, or w.e you want.
If you wish to keep your fantasy world going on with modded data, go on. If you think you can use a slice of the pie while ignoring 80% of the rest, go ahead.
Keep lying to yourself and others.
It is the epitome of ignorance to demand that we cannot use data to infer these things, especially the data that we have.
Sure, some people would leave because they wanted to go demon hunter. Some people would leave because they were tired of WoW. Some people may leave because its too expensive. Some people may leave because of schedule changes. So on and so forth.
The problem here, is that ALL of those things would essentially be equally true for all classes. But we have seen that Hunters faced WAY more losses than all other classes. There are only so many things that can account for one particular class losing so many while the other classes lost much fewer. The primary reason is that the class in question experienced changes that caused them to leave. In fact, what other potential explanation could there be? It has to be linked to something that changed about the Hunter class, and the biggest change was that SV was deleted.
Yet the entirety of your argument is “No we can’t use data. Data is a liar.”
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Well that and the argument that and the argument the data doesn’t give any data is based on flawed logic. Sure where ever you’re getting your data may only take into consideration specific groups of players, but that’s going to be the same specific group across all classes. What would they have to gain by singling out hunters as opposed to warriors or mages?
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You have data covering all max level: Includes all Alts, people having log off as X spec at the time, people who leveled those character just for bank / heritage armor purpose, etc.
-Covers all content of the game, but not 100% realistic in terms of active players playing it.
You have data for Mythic Raiding, which may I remind you… a small fragment of players does it. For various reason you have people who will not attempt it and you have some that simply don’t raid.
You have pvp data, 1800+ rating. Even this one… not every pvpers will do RBGs or Arena. Regular BG with friends or solo, wpvp more fun to some.
M+ class data, comes with similar issue as Mythic raiding. Though it covers more, since lower keys are more easy to do.
So overall, the lvl 120 data is closes to real representation, but still remains off. And by using that data, a lot of the MSV hate claim comes are nullified.
Other things to take account, while comparing lets say MOP to Legion (any time at all) it will not show anything related to the reasons for leaving or anything related to class change in %.
Did the person got bored and changed class or quit game?
Did the person simply rerolled a new class to explore something new or for his raid group?
Did the person quit his main to play the new class?
Did the person had to quit WoW for various reason outside the game?
Its better to have no data than terrible/fake/incomplete numbers. Those numbers will make you assume things as you believe it be… when really it ain’t like what you think it is. Thus making false claims, suggesting changes that could make things worst, etc.
Why did I type this knowing the same dummy will not believe it? I dont know.
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Yes… but I have a question for you. When you’re watching the news, reading a news article and it says “43% of democrats agree/disagree with X”, do you think they went and asked every single registered democrat in the country?
Short answer is no. Almost all data is off, missing pieces, or just a small sample of a whole. That doesn’t make the data invalid or not useful for anything. You take each piece of data and put it together and look at the trends. When the trends all go in the same direction, then you look for causation.
As has been pointed out to you several times, these factors are not going to be unique to the hunter class. All of these are going to be something that happens across every class.
Right, it’s better to have no data then fake data, but some data is always better than no data.
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And there’s a term for that… which always been a terrible thing to use. Its a form of manipulation / pressure when they do that without mentioning its like out from 100 people we’ve questioned or anything.
If it is better to have no data then what position are you even taking? If you don’t think that you can draw conclusions about melee SV or the Hunter class based on data, then what are you even doing on these forums? What position are you even taking? Are you just crusading against data?
Also, no, the fact that lots of players left the Hunter class is not a false claim. We have the direct data that tells us, and it has been linked many times. Even if Blizzard gave us their data we would still be left to interpreting it in the same exact way as we interpret the data from Wargraphs. Therefore the only argument you can make is that the data is wrong about what it claims to report. Yet you aren’t making that argument. Instead you are just demanding that we not ever interpret data to draw conclusions, which is absolutely bananas.
And you know what it is called when you throw out data and conclusions because it doesn’t have absolutely every metric nor give every single detail about every point of data? It’s called a perfectionist fallacy.
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Let’s just take this at face value. This does not in any way negate what I said. People being shady with how they present data, does not invalidate the data. When it comes to data, you should be fact checking as much as possible yourself. Now I understand most of us don’t have time to fact check a lot of things we’re told/see. That does not invalidate the data. You can manipulate how it’s presented and take it out of context all you want, the data is still valid. Only when the data itself is manipulated does it become invalid.
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Well sadly, thats what some crusader been doing. I dont think one has used it correctly around yet.
How is it being manipulated? Explain how. I am giving you the links to the raw data itself.
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And that’s on Periodt.
Yea it’s broke.
Cause Paladins HAVE to have a shield equipped for one of those new baseline skills and the spec has always used 2hs and conjuring.
Yup. Not only are they both delusional, but they continue to troll these forums.
Just tragic.
Right. The people giving feedback about the class and giving suggestions about ways to improve it are the trolls, while the hecklers whose sole purpose on these forums is to deride them are just totally reasonable chaps.
Come back when you have actual arguments rather than just hating ranged Survival and calling anyone who wants it back ‘delusional trolls’.
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Another troll offended that his trolling ways aren’t getting what he wants.
Y’all will continue to go without until you act right.
That includes your behavior on these here forums.
Periodt.
Sorry, but what part of my behavior is off exactly?
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I really like current survival. I just want RSV also. I think this far into the game would be a good time to give hunters a more magic / DoT + proc style gameplay like we had. That’s the main reason I played surv. I like RPing as a ranger that used magic arrows.
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I think he’s talking about himself. All data presenting he twists and butchers to fit him. When he can’t, he dismisses it as unusable. He sets up straw man after straw man without using any actual facts to support anything he says while claiming he has answers. He’s done this on several other threads.
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