Ehh…sure.
my first game under the new model was a defense and we lost. felt like we had control of the flag at SR then the attacking team came out of nowhere with a bunch of catas.
if anything i would say lower the vehicle per workshop ratio or change BT and SR to be neutral at the start, once a the attacker can make catas, they can make like 12 right out of the gate.
Wintergrasp is still favoring defense, these are the main issues I’m seeing in pug games I’ve played:
- still waaay too much emphasis on the first teamfight
- even though offense starts off with control of SR, defense always gets there first (important for #1)… while offense slowly trickles in, or enters the fight with fall damage
- cannons reaching into the flag area of SR make the first teamfight easy-mode for defense (just like before)
If the starting/zone-in area for offense was “moved up” north somewhat (so both sides get to SR at the same time), and the cannons range was reduced, maybe it would be a little closer to balanced.
Making the SR/BT workshops neutral is also a good idea, this prevents one side or the other from immediately cranking out a bunch of catas mid-teamfight.
If this is true…
…then you should NOT do this.
Yep, have to agree there lol.
You gotta almost plan “around” the teamfight (create “conditions” that offer you a greater chance to win a teamfight).
Or they could take 2 steps to the left and run in, avoiding damage.
Not really “easy-mode.”
Reminder that while offense controls SR, the graveyard is 2 inches away from the teamfight for offense, while it’s 2 miles away from the teamfight for defense, so each defense death is very punishing, while each offense death is recoverable.
Plus, offense can build once 5 people on Defense die, while defense cannot build until they cap it.
Speaking of the first teamfight, I’m not seeing half the team leave like before 
But then again, a few days isn’t really a good sample size, and could be explained by:
- new/returning players curious about the patch/trying out the changes
- new/returning players that are clueless and don’t know any better (most likely)
It will be interesting to see what happens once the dust settles. So far I’m only seeing 4-5 players leave from the losing team, with maybe a few more over the course of the match.
I’ll be keeping an eye on this to see what happens once the PvE’ers/patch day people clear out and it’s mostly PvPers again.
I mean, because EVERYBODY gets rank after 5 minutes no matter what (even backfillers), losing the teamfight as offense no longer means your chances of winning are “hopeless.”
Even if you don’t get enough kills, you’ll still be able to build after 5 minutes.
Plus, if you’re team is REALLY undergeared or spawns in with zero healers, you can better perform a strat where you just avoid a teamfight in its entirety and just try to focus on staying grouped and attacking the wall/the other team once you all can build.
P.S. Just curious, did you see my Twitter post I linked in the forums earlier, then removed?
I caught a glimpse of it, something something about hangar?
Why did you take it down? Or did it get flagged?
I didn’t want it on an official Blizzard forum post.
Just search for my Twitter handle if you want to see it again.
in my opinion, which I know is going to fall on deaf ears and possibly lead to some trolling and flame wars, but Wintergrasp is a horrible BG and should be removed. I will take deserter every time I get it. and then there is the balance issue and the lack of structure in BGs and no leadership no direction. It’s all rather annoying. The issue is that everyone wants to be a hero. this is not COD. be nice to see a reward system that encourages teamwork and team play. but that sadly doesn’t exist in the game. the idea that returning players and new players all want the same thing better gear. be nice to see a better loot system actually, one that rewards consistent team play. PUG’s, LFR is garbage, not fun having to deal with drama queens, prima donnas, and folks that do not attack what the tank is attacking.
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One thing I don’t get about the two mages…
The horde (fire) mage has a magma elemental (but player fire mages do not have a summoned pet) and the alliance (frost) mage does not have an elemental (but player frost mages do).
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@Linxy
Can we just have a 40-man format again in Ashran?
I was in Discord yesterday with a premade group, and the topic of the awkward 35v35 format in Ashran came up. Basically 1 or 2 premade members were complaining about how 35-man format makes it more difficult to sync queues and get everyone into the same bg.
In our case, we got queue pops at the same time and took it… only to find out that some of the premade members got sent to an Alterac Valley, while the rest got sent to an Ashran 
So there was this awkward chatter where AV strats and Ashran strats were both being called out in the same voice channel.
Just make it 40v40 for the sake of consistency with the other epic bg maps. Also consider bumping up the reinforcements count to account for the 5 additional players per team.
As a side-note, since the devs will be working on/tweaking Southshore vs Tarren Mill to address bugs… can you have them change the reinforcements number/counter from “150” to “200” while they’re in there?
This is an easy/simple way to make it up to us for the delay.
Such a simple number change would make the matches last a bit longer/more enjoyable. 150 reinforcements just evaporate with burst/damage being so high this expansion - it’s bordering on low.
I only played a few hours before it was taken down, but this is one of the first things I noticed (other than the talents bug).
People die fast and reinforcements evaporate, so it makes sense that the reinforcements/ticket counter should be higher to offset this. 200 is just a suggestion, personally I wouldn’t mind if it was even higher 
You run with premades now?
If you’re interested, I could arrange so that we go against each other. (Or we could Wargame.)
Oh I don’t organize premades or lead them or anything like that, I’m just there as a guest/pug
I solo-queue like 95% of the time, but hopping into a premade from time to time is fun. I do get into Discord and follow instructions from the premade leader as they are given.
Ah, alright. Who do you run with, if I may ask?
Usually I play w/ Cryptid’s League when they do one of their occasional premade nights, but yesterday I hopped into RUIN’s premade just for the lulz
Ashran should end with the death of the enemy faction’s NPC boss. This never happens. Please fix!
Huh?
Unless I’m mistaken, Ashran does end when the NPC boss is killed.
If you’re referring to the mage, then I strongly disagree. Mage should be an important node to defend, but it would be too significant for the mage to be THE boss that ends the game, as it would make killing the commanders pointless.
Thoughts on updates
Isle of Conquest
Glaive buff seems fine. Very deadly when combined with demolishers guarding them. Hangar with the gate health increases drags out games for unnecessarily long periods if your glaive team is working well. Still think turrets are doing far too much damage to vehicles.
Ashran
More of a contentious thing. There’s a large emphasis on both teams ignoring each other at the start to farm for fragments because Fang and Kronus are incredibly strong when healed and generally only die once they’re inside an enemy base meaning you can grab the Mage for a free 30 reinforcements while the opposite faction is distracted. Since the rares spawning in woods and gorian falls where everyone goes at the start are random, one faction just gains a natural fragment lead. For some reason Horde continually goes to Korlok after woods whereas Alliance makes a smart play to farm additional fragments at Ring of Conquest while they are occupied.
So I guess the real negative consequence of the change here is games often exceed 40 minutes and around 25 of those are spent either slowly moving forward with or moving back from Fang and Kronus. It’s often a complete slog and not really enjoyable.
Wintergrasp
As expected the Sunken Ring rush at the start continues and really determines the match. Defense still has an advantage due to the sheer volume of RPGs and vehicles they can use if they don’t do well in their Sunken Ring fight. It’s incredibly hard to stop RPGs from being fired. I’ve had losses on offense with four bases held and only one tower being destroyed because 8 defensive vehicles in the courtyard and RPGs just create a complete death wall for vehicles and players. At least the tower change means the game doesn’t get drawn out most of the time.
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Had an outstanding Ashran last night … Horde was down 7-21 and getting pushed to the mage tower. Ally extended a little too hard , forgot to Lust and lost the game 4-0 . 
One more time Ally managed to snatch a loss out of the jaws of victory . 
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Speaking of this, I was in that IoC with you on your Dwarf alt yesterday 
From what I remember, we were doing everything “right” (holding hangar, killing glaives, etc) but narrowly lost because Ally choked at the end. So the strategy itself was fine, it was just the scuffed execution.
We got their wall down first, and started boss first, but there were about 7-9 Horde that came back to defend and pick off our people. At some point during the chaos the graveyard was lost and everyone started respawning @ hangar.
We narrowly lost the boss DPS race by about 6-7% - despite starting on the boss first. It was quite an “epic” throw of what should’ve been an easy win 