It is actually pretty freaking nuts right now. Our guild Ret Paladin was pumping like crazy with the changes.
Being off the GCD makes more difference than I thought it would.
well cata sucked soo I can’t argue at all about that
yes it did but in 4.3 just about every spec is good enough to do the raids. so i completely understand the frustration about having low dps. all i have heard is that ret has been nerfed up and down the expansion but when i look for these in the patch notes they are literally non-existent where they are getting these huge nerfs from beyond me. the only is the one i laid out for seal of blood but back in 2008 and 9 horde had the superior seal which is mind boggling how they ended up wtih the better of the two seals considering this is an alliance based class. it was good they did away with blood and just gave both factions the same seal.
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Okay just got out of an AB where I HoR multiple dk ghouls that were attacking my teammates and while it did taunt them to me for a brief moment it did 0 dmg to any of them.
Hmm. Maybe they changed how it works in pvp on pets with this update? I know my pet was killed from a hor earlier in wotlkc from during world pvp when i pulled my pet away when it was being focused (it survived the hammer of wrath execute due to cower 40% damage reduction, which is why i looked to see what killed it after that).
Guess they changed that with 0 notes. Wouldnt be the first time of them making a noticeable change with 0 notice though.
- Not a Goal – Bring all of the classes with poor PvE output up similarly. Frost Mages, Subtlety Rogues, Arms Warriors, and Beast Mastery Hunters are all at or below the output of Retribution in PvE and it would be easy to point to this change and say “What about [insert spec here]”. That’s fair, and this very argument was a motivator for us holding off on making changes here. A key argument that swayed us however is that all of those classes have very viable alternatives for PvE DPS, whereas Paladins only have Retribution in this role. All of these specs also have traditionally been viewed as PvP specs, and we are very leery to shift the meta in PvP while chasing a buff to PvE. This is why we went the direction we did for Retribution; as the impact to PvP shouldn’t be large. We’ll continue to evaluate things as time goes by, but we do not have any plans for other similar class adjustments after this one.
Currently no plans for further changes, just like they said in the DK change, you’re flailing and attacking because you’re upset. If you read you would see they put out a pretty decent reasoning for why they did both class/spec changes. If BM falls into that at somepoint you may get the buffs, however this also was said which may be bad for BM getting those buffs:
"All of these specs also have traditionally been viewed as PvP specs" and additionally " key argument that swayed us however is that all of those classes have very viable alternatives for PvE DPS, whereas Paladins only have Retribution in this role." Keep in mind BM is named directly as “considered a pvp class”.
This is a pretty good buff. I was skeptical at first, but having an ability off gcd that is basically free damage was huge. OGCD attacks always tend to be pretty powerful to have. The much faster vengeance stacking is very noticeable too.
There was currently no plans for further changes before the ret buff as well.
Are you so selfish that now that you got the buff you have been asking for you dont want any other struggling specs to get a buff?
Why would you be so against other classes getting slight tuning that you are so adamant about shutting down a simple question like “bm buff when?” Is it because you only care about your class/spec and dont care if all the rest have specs rotting because they are just as bad as ret was before the buff, if not worse (due to far less useful utility)?
I have asked a simple question and you keep spouting the not a goal when the question wasnt even directed at you.
Tell me would you be agaist hunter pets having a 7th teir talent (that only bm would have the points to reach) that increases their offensive stats inherited from the hunter by X% when in combat with a target that is a higher level than the hunter? This means there is 0 pvp impact (because no player goes past lvl 80) and only effects raids and helps fix bm hunter main issue. Scaling poorly.
You seem so adamantly agaist anyone else getting a slight tune up yet cheer when your spec got buffs.
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I’m just kind of surprised at the vocal ones in the Ret community not seeing the larger impact of such a change; in spite of Blizzard saying that this is not to be taken as a precedent for other classes/specs to expect similar. The long and short is that it creates a great deal of “othering” and for what gain? Rets are in raids now. When the ICC Tier drops, there would naturally have been more. I’m not trying to be accusative nor really pick sides (I main Ret!) but this is a change that strikes me as having far more net-negative than positive, in spite of any +dps it brings to my fav spec.
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Ah you’re just out here lying again, never said that in fact I support balance buffs for any class that blizzards data shows needs one. Try again, this ad hominem didn’t work before.
Im not against any class getting a buff or bump if they need one. Blizzard doesn’t think BM does.
Legitimately still learning hunter so I can’t comment on the buff you’re presenting as good or bad however if the BM spec or hunter class is seen by blizzard as needing a boost I imagine you would get one based on their logic in these past two changes. Personally though I would have no issue as I think BM should get a bit more pet options and customization over the other hunter specializations.
Show me evidence of this? Also I am holy/prot so while it is a ret buff, I am not using it. You’re making nothing but personal attacks and assumptions towards me and others who present you with blizzards surprisingly reasonable statements and goals.
Wow, so many lies and falsehoods here good job. Holy/prot have the same utility and even BM brings a version sanctified retribution to a group. Once again though I have been and will remain to be supportive of balance and buffs.
Feel free to respond with more lies and hyperbole though.
Honestly this change was completely unnecessary. That’s all I’ll say.
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I’m just speculating here, but it might be possible that the 2 piece tier 9 tank set bonus is really really good for Ret now. 2 seconds off hand of reckoning seems much stronger than the 4pc t9 Ret bonus. The only question is if it is worth the stats lost on the items themselves.
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Then why do you keep bringing up not a goal when i ask blizzard when the bm buffs are coming? Im not asking you, i am asking blizzard. Yet you keep trying to silence me for asking blizzard a question.
Interesting thought for sure. That stat loss though, oof.
Then me posting the goal should be enough, sorry no, you READING the goal should be enough as it directly answers your “BM buff when?”. It goes on to even explain why BM and others weren’t on the board currently.
Not at all attempting to silence you, just sharing information as to why your asking is likely not to be answered and using direct blue post quotes to support it.
All YOU have done is insult, lie, and act belligerent when faced with direct answers and reasoning that you have asked for from blizzard.
Entirely possible considering hor is off the gcd.
Yes there is some star loss but chosing the least impactful items stat wise might work. So gloves and sholders maybe?
Yet blizzard said no at the dk nerf, and here we are after that with ret having buffs.
Clearly they have new information that made them revisit the issue. They explained themselves in the blue post announcing the Ret buff. The Goal was clearly stated and they reiterated how much they dislike making even small class balance changes and would prefer to not regularly do things like that, which so far holds true as they have done it twice. Once was a change to bring power level down (DK) and once to bring power level up in a extremely marginal and soft way (ret).
You repeat this line over and over and yet fail to read anything they posted in the Ret buff announcement that covers this.
Kinda what I was thinking. I mean that bonus is a flat 25% boost to the damage. Considering it is doing between 10-15% right now, that is a pretty good chunk for a set bonus.
And come icc when ret is top 5 dps with amazing utility and bm is still absolute garbage because of low damage and low utility?
Im not saying buff bm now, but once it starts to truly become F teir due to its horrible scaling and lack of utility (it doesnt even have survivability in its favor like frost mages)? They should definitely take a look at it. Im offering solutions early that fit their desire to not buff pvp performance.