Not that this pushes us to mid tier, just higher than frost mages.
I’m not sure having a long-CD makes it ‘not a taunt’ since it’s core mechanic is exactly a taunt but ymmv. 
I do agree that it’s in a bit of a weird place at max level, but it’s useful to have if you get a resist and you aren’t already covered by the Vig refresh.
I’d be curious how much dps warriors use it in practice, but hypothetically you could peel trash like junk bots off a healer, etc. It’s handy leveling, at least. /shrug
Thats the issue, Ret is pulling 6-7k burst in pvp
This change does not effect PVP, at least the HoR change.
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This change has literally 0 impact in pvp or on our most popular pvp spec, preg paladin.
Why are you playing BM when you have competitive dps specs?
It’s not a taunt because it does not give you the threat of the person you’re taunting off of like every other taunt in the game…
For me that’s not a key distinction since even taunts that do equal threat aren’t a get out of jail free card (and it buys time for actual Taunt taunt to come off cd), but I can at least see the argument you’re making.
They also mentioned during the dk nerf they would not be buffing ret. Yet here we are.
One is a prot warrior, and the others?
Sub rogue, frost mage and arms warrior, the 3 absolute top pvp specs in the game.
Kinda like the announcement said, yanno.
No, and I direct quote " We stated before that we will use the patch 3.3.5 class balance, with as few adjustments as possible, and we intend to stick to that."
“few adjustments as possible” being key.
Also not once is ret specifically mentioned by name in the DK gargoyle post, all classes are mentioned broadly without naming them. Should read the blue posts, they offer some general insight into why decisions are made.
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I gotchu
- Not a Goal – Bring all of the classes with poor PvE output up similarly. Frost Mages, Subtlety Rogues, Arms Warriors, and Beast Mastery Hunters are all at or below the output of Retribution in PvE and it would be easy to point to this change and say “What about [insert spec here]”. That’s fair, and this very argument was a motivator for us holding off on making changes here. A key argument that swayed us however is that all of those classes have very viable alternatives for PvE DPS, whereas Paladins only have Retribution in this role. All of these specs also have traditionally been viewed as PvP specs, and we are very leery to shift the meta in PvP while chasing a buff to PvE. This is why we went the direction we did for Retribution; as the impact to PvP shouldn’t be large. We’ll continue to evaluate things as time goes by, but we do not have any plans for other similar class adjustments after this one.
Everything he says is countered by about two individual blue posts.
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And ret is a top pvp spec as well.
Hmmmm. Double standards much?
“Buff me but dont buff anyone else that needs it” is basically what you are saying.
This is a false statement. People PVP as Preg not Ret. These changes were also made to not impact PVP at all, you’re grasping at straws to stay upset and you’re flat out just making things up, and for good measure ill direct quote again:
- Not a Goal – Bring all of the classes with poor PvE output up similarly. Frost Mages, Subtlety Rogues, Arms Warriors, and Beast Mastery Hunters are all at or below the output of Retribution in PvE and it would be easy to point to this change and say “What about [insert spec here]”. That’s fair, and this very argument was a motivator for us holding off on making changes here. A key argument that swayed us however is that all of those classes have very viable alternatives for PvE DPS, whereas Paladins only have Retribution in this role.
Bolded the last statement to cover why ret, if you were right and it is a “TOP PVP” spec(which is wrong), recieved these changes.
Bolded the first part here that trashes your whole “PVP SPEC” argument as BM is listed as a PVP spec along with others, key difference being hunters have 3 dps specs to choose from if one is under performing.
“All of these specs also have traditionally been viewed as PvP specs, and we are very leery to shift the meta in PvP while chasing a buff to PvE. This is why we went the direction we did for Retribution; as the impact to PvP shouldn’t be large. We’ll continue to evaluate things as time goes by, but we do not have any plans for other similar class adjustments after this one.”
I am saying nothing, just repeating blizzards own words and logical reasonings to refute legit every claim you are making.
Though I will say one thing, I support balance changes and have before this point. Putting words in my and other paladins mouths is arguing in bad faith and somewhat of a strawman argument.
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Think you’re confusing that with Preg. I’m no Arena grandmaster, but outside of Bubble (which any competent Priest or Warrior will bring down quickly), Ret doesn’t have a lot of defensive options, making them the primary target in the upper rankings.
You might be thinking of Cupid Cleave, which can be a successful comp, but I’m willing to bet there are more Preg paladins than actual Ret paladins.
LOL cmon dude.
Preg is, but this change didn’t affect preg much at all.
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No, but they much more likely to forgo a non-paladin OT, and swap out more healers to holy now that off-specing to ret isn’t as bad on fights that don’t need 5 healers or 2 tanks.
Something that isn’t a valid option in my view is piecemeal one off selective “fixes”. A response, if there is one, needs to be fair and measured and consistently applied. That takes time, effort, and money. You’re essentially patching the game in releases again.
Just backtracking here, this is pertinent I feel, as these “knee jerk” changes to community outrage, quite rightful though they are, it appears the “numbers” are totally wrong compared to original due to numerous factors, better addons to track debuffs, theorycrafting and using Tricks better in terms of Locks, meta gem swapping (an exploit as far as i’m concerned), Total BuG from Beta that wasn’t fixed in a timely manner in the form of Unholy DKs, the fact we are using the last patch of the game up front with gearing not tuned to that patch, BUT also I feel there could be further BuGs and/or baseline numbers not correct in terms of these classes 40% ahead, but we’ll never be told and we don’t have the data from the old World of Logs sadly, I wish they could share that somehow!
But with this change, is it being removed come ICC? Or will it be kept on top of T10 set bonuses and extra Haste we will acquire? That is problematic in a number of ways, it’s not the original design intent nor gameplay mechanic for one, therefore not in the spirit of “classic”, and also it skews the “numbers” again and screwing up scaling. I agree it’s unacceptable. Instead of sorting out the numbers of other classes that are performing way ahead of where they should be and a broader view as to what is happening atm!
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Well, while we are here, wanna hear a dad joke?
Anyone who has a problem with the new change…
…can talk to the 
You have to be a troll.
And blizzard had said they wouldnt buff ret when they made the dk nerf. Yet here we are.
So again i ask blizzard.
Bm buffs when?
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