Unsustainable Rated PvP System: Solutions

[Stigz-illidan]

@Bloomsday-sulfuras

I would suggest things that do not destroy the game.

Great, like what?

[Nasrajin-sargeras]

@Stigz-illidan

This is the entire point of the post

I don’t think it is. The point of my commentary is that the biggest problem is a community one, not a game-system or design issue. The point of yours was that the game should have its systems entirely changed and rebalanced around an issue that isn’t directly caused by the game.

@Stigz-illidan

we have to get away from Solo Queue revolving around needing healers or it will never go anywhere.

I disagree. Obviously incredibly long queue times aren’t fun for anyone and I think that incentivizing more healers to play the game when there is a relative shortage is a great way to help address that. However, solo queue has been incredibly successful and what that format is for wont be improved in any way by just “incentivizing” healers because the biggest reasons people don’t play healers aren’t likely to change by just slapping a reward on it.

@Stigz-illidan

insanely high queue times that are driving players away.

I guarantee that healers playing 100s of mmr away from their CR and absurd gameplay design changes would be far more detrimental than a queue time. While queue times suck, I think everyone would prefer to wait longer and have quality games than just slam queue for a fast session of hot garbage. This is such a “you think you do, but you don’t” commentary brought about because you’re frustrated by the queue times.
It’s totally fine to be frustrated and helpful to try and think of suggestions, but it feels like your ideas are not at all thought out and only from the perspective of someone who likes solo Q.

[Remi-tichondrius]

@Stigz-illidan

We need a bracket where players can just queue and play within a meaningful timeframe while still progressing their conquest

maybe they should increase the conquest in skirmishes to mirror rated content?

being able to spam queue skirmishes to scratch the itch to jump into arena and press random buttons while working twords your gearing goals as a casual player would probably be fine

at worst it’s something to do while sitting shuffle queue

@Stigz-illidan

But like I and someone else already said no matter what we throw at healers it won’t significantly change much.

i don’t think you or they are really qualified to make that claim though

the vast majority of good healer players i know refuse to play shuffle because there’s no point

they can queue 3v3 with who they want/trust to not make extremely frustrating mistakes and they’ll be rewarded appropriately for their time spent / hair lost

if the reward was worth the headache they have all anecdotally ofc said they would play shuffle without a doubt

all they have to do is adjust the role mmr to be more forgiving (who cares if healer ladder is dramatically easier to climb in titles are spec specific and healers can q into any mmr lobby)
and dungeon type gold bags were offered

[Psypalm-zuljin]

@Stigz-illidan

• ~3 MINUTE TIMER SOLO SHUFFLE

– How:
Dampening removed. On each round of Solo Shuffle there’s a ~3 minute timer, maybe less. If that timer runs out before anyone dies, both healers get a win, and the DPS get a loss.

lol this is such an off the wall solution but i love it. its worth a shot.

have you guys even played as a healer?

youre basically in 1v1 vs other healer of throughput and who gets cc’d less while your dps just mindlessly rotate through cds

maybe dps just get a tie though instead of a loss

[Stigz-illidan]

@Nasrajin-sargeras

The point of my commentary is that the biggest problem is a community one, not a game-system or design issue. The point of yours was that the game should have its systems entirely changed and rebalanced around an issue that isn’t directly caused by the game.

I agree, but it’s a human nature problem not even specific to the WoW community. For the majority, it’s always more fun to play offense than it is defense. We can’t really control the community/human nature variable, but we can control/modify the systems in which we participate in to accomodate.

@Stigz-illidan

we have to get away from Solo Queue revolving around needing healers or it will never go anywhere.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

I disagree. Obviously incredibly long queue times aren’t fun for anyone and I think that incentivizing more healers to play the game when there is a relative shortage is a great way to help address that. However, solo queue has been incredibly successful and what that format is for wont be improved in any way by just “incentivizing” healers because the biggest reasons people don’t play healers aren’t likely to change by just slapping a reward on it.

I agree with your disagreement because again that is my point lol. Although I made some suggestions to improve MMR gain for healers right now, because its awful, it won’t help us in the long run, we have to get away from requiring their presence for a queue to pop.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

I guarantee that healers playing 100s of mmr away from their CR and absurd gameplay design changes would be far more detrimental than a queue time.

That’s literally what is happening right now, healers are playing outside their MMR/CR for queues to pop, so what do you mean?

I’m not suggesting game design changes, just system changes.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

This is such a “you think you do, but you don’t” commentary brought about because you’re frustrated by the queue times.

I am frustrated by the queue times, but not just at its face value in game, but because how its driving away our playerbase.

@Nasrajin-sargeras

It’s totally fine to be frustrated and helpful to try and think of suggestions, but it feels like your ideas are not at all thought out and only from the perspective of someone who likes solo Q.

No I didn’t think about this for weeks, I’m not a game developer lol. Just trying to open the discussion for what the community’s ideas are too. So far it’s just been kneejerk whining, except yours.

Yes, my frustration with the queue times has been part of what led me to making this post. LFG is just as bad with wait times, and like I said in the OP its polarized. What are new players supposed to do that are trying to get in to arena and have no friends? How are we supposed to continually build a PvP community if they have no way to participate in arena in a timely manner without in game friends? Plays into my point that these systems are unsustainable, we can’t even retain new players trying arena.

[Cruzr-zuljin]

lol fr look at all these clown DPS that never healed a round in their life think everything out here ok

[Stigz-illidan]

@Remi-tichondrius

maybe they should increase the conquest in skirmishes to mirror rated content?

being able to spam queue skirmishes to scratch the itch to jump into arena and press random buttons while working twords your gearing goals as a casual player would probably be fine

Interesting idea. Now I’m thinking ahead about how yes now they can all get conquest, practice their class, etc… but transmogs/ratings/titles are still locked behind a mode where you have to sit in a queue or LFG for 20-30 minutes to participate in. So would it really help participation?

@Stigz-illidan

But like I and someone else already said no matter what we throw at healers it won’t significantly change much.

@Remi-tichondrius

i don’t think you or they are really qualified to make that claim though

Not that this matters too much, but I have 3 healers around 1900-2100 in 3s and Solo Shuffle atm. All I can play are healers because I can’t sit in 20-30min queues, or gain rating in a reasonable amount of time on my DPS characters because of life responsibilities.

@Remi-tichondrius

the vast majority of good healer players i know refuse to play shuffle because there’s no point

they can queue 3v3 with who they want/trust to not make extremely frustrating mistakes and they’ll be rewarded appropriately for their time spent / hair lost

if the reward was worth the headache they have all anecdotally ofc said they would play shuffle without a doubt

all they have to do is adjust the role mmr to be more forgiving (who cares if healer ladder is dramatically easier to climb in titles are spec specific and healers can q into any mmr lobby)
and dungeon type gold bags were offered

Of course it would bring back more healers. But the point is even if every PvP healer in the game was back in to playing a solo queue mode for whatever reason that relies on them being available in queue for it to pop, because there are significantly less of them than DPS, there will always be a bottleneck in the queue that keeps others from playing.

[Dirtyslap-zuljin]

i mean, i’m down to try some 2s solo queues. tired of not even being able to play the game

got some real weird cringelord nolifers in here that apparently enjoy being tabbed out every 30minutes playing candycrush while they sit in their queues i guess

edit: more child friendly response, seems to be a lot in here lmao

[Gnarz-zuljin]

what about a 2v2v2v2 mode like league has done, maybe try it in a brawl

should probably try all of these in a brawl first lol

[Kennie-malganis]

@Gnarz-zuljin

should probably try all of these in a brawl first lol

It is kind of the tester mode. I’d have kind of liked to see them implement more of their experiments elsewhere, like a moba map (Arathi Warfront?) with a few pve objectives like in the Shadopan Showdown where you’re fighting each others raid boss.

Almost kind of like hots in wow.

[Stigz-illidan]

@Gnarz-zuljin

what about a 2v2v2v2 mode like league has done, maybe try it in a brawl

should probably try all of these in a brawl first lol

Would be a cool brawl, don’t think it would last as a full on rated bracket

[Blurfy-kelthuzad]

@Bloomsday-sulfuras

Some classes absolutely rely on healers to have a playable experience.

This is the biggest problem with the system blizzard created

A ton of specs and or players don’t interact with the gameplay of their healers in any sense that a permanent healing stream totem couldn’t replicate. I do not believe a version of the game where you can have deep games without healers would even be difficult to design, but I 100% know blizzard won’t bother trying

[Manfighting-westfall]

@Kennie-malganis

like a moba map

They had a MOBA map in progress during Vanilla (set in Azshara) that never made it live. Would have been wicked fun.

[Dirtyslap-zuljin]

i dont see how we dont transfer over to having a 2s solo queue at this point

its not like everyone is going to just sit in 30 min queues for the rest of the games life and expect people to play this game

[Dabdaddy-dawnbringer]

The problem is the 6 matches in 1 game

Just make it a 1 and done game and que times woule be unbelieveably faster.

Itll solve ALL the mmr bs and dumb healer mmr cr earning crap being spammed on the board as well

Holding 6 people hostage in an arena to fail over and over again is just redic. But a 1 and done game would be quick and youll be able to easily recollect what you done wrong and to improve before you que another match

Solo shuffle needs to be a 1 and done game. Not 6 matches

[Stigz-illidan]

@Dabdaddy-dawnbringer

The problem is the 6 matches in 1 game

Just make it a 1 and done game and que times woule be unbelieveably faster.

Holding 6 people hostage in an arena to fail over and over again is just redic. But a 1 and done game would be quick and youll be able to easily recollect what you done wrong and to imprpve before you que another match

I’ll throw it up there

[Ksâh-bleeding-hollow]

@Stigz-illidan

Dampening removed. On each round of Solo Shuffle there’s a ~3 minute timer, maybe less. If that timer runs out before anyone dies, both healers get a win, and the DPS get a loss.

Main concern is the DPS on the team are now diametrically opposed to their healer in regards to win conditions. Healers will now play not to lose instead of playing to win.

[Tatez-sargeras]

@Ksâh-bleeding-hollow

Main concern is the DPS on the team are now diametrically opposed to their healer in regards to win conditions. Healers will now play not to lose instead of playing to win.

they already are playing not to lose

at least that way they’d get something out of playing correctly

[Bloomsday-sulfuras]

@Stigz-illidan

Great, like what

You know we can tell that you liked your own comment (and thread for that matter) on 12 of your alts, right?

[Ethylene-thrall]

When shuffle was at peak popularity last season ques were sub 10 minutes all the time at any rating. This season I haven’t sat in a que longer than 25 minutes at any rating I have touched. The actual problem is drama queens like yourself making up numbers to cry. Fix mmr ques get back to a reasonable time like last season.