It just makes logical sense to return key utility for both specs IMVHO
Sub doesn’t function the same without Gouge and for Assassination it would make the spec feel even more fun. That is my hot take on that.
27 Likes
I second this motion 100%
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Yeppers.
We are one step closer to making Rogues whole again. Can’t give up now. 
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Gouge was always the one thing I wish they had never unpruned.
It just never felt right.
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Weird that they didn’t give gouge back seeing all the stuff that did comeback with the beta. It definitely feels more forgotten than intentionally left out… considering shiv existed in honor talents while being baseline during the earlier beta builds.
With how many people complaining about it I guarantee you it wasn’t forgotten, it’s clearly intentionally left out. They have steadily reduced the amount of CC in PvP and as it stands Rogues have as much or more than the majority of classes so it’s safe to say it won’t return even if it feels great to use.
A couple of weeks ago they had a Blue post stating that class design was finished and the final stages for the Beta are bug fixes and tuning which means it’s fate is pretty much sealed, it ain’t comin’ back.
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Only a complete idiot would disagree.
Assuming here you meant pruned.
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This makes me sad, I was hoping for slaughter changes
Whenever I see posts asking for gouge or garrote(or usually, both) unpruned for sub, I am left wondering if people actually know what they are talking about because there are many other underlying details that go unmentioned.
Asking for unprunes is fun and all, esp after the class redesign done in Legion, but what should happen to the additional utility that sub gained in legion? Like, are you asking that gouge and garrote should be returned while we retain shadowstrike teleport and double shadowstep charges? That would be absurd because the utility would go completely overboard.
Or are sub rogues really willing to lose the utility gained in legion to really go back to mop/wod design(I’m omitting cata sub on purpose because prep smoke bomb should never be a thing again), esp when things like shimmer & DH are a thing? In the current design of the game, where DHs can cross 17 miles in 2 seconds, mages can 40-yard you off gcd, or even DKs HAVE WRAITH WALK, having no shadowstrike jump or only a single charge of step would just render sub rogue a mongo tunneling spec because you won’t ever be able to cross cc multiple enemy targets. It’d just be KIDNEY CHEAP CHEAP GARROTE EVERYTHING KILL gameplay which I dont see very appealing. Keep in mind that back in the days mages had deep freeze which enabled the mage & rogue to collectively cross cc.
Don’t misunderstand me for saying I don’t want gouge or garrote back. I really do. But it also really pains me that when people are asking for unprunes, it seems like they completely overlook the things they gained, their impact on the meta, and the possible consequences if they were removed in return for unpruning.
Ideal situation, I lean more for MoP because WoD pruned too much, and made the class too easy to play in terms of CC.
It’s my opinion that the WoD combo point system contributes heavily into CC pruning of rogues in Legion.
Going back to what worked under the modern grid system is the best option, because the present incarnation is trash for the simple fact that things like shadow strike are mindless when they are base to the kit.
Combo points should be something you consider again, they should be something valuable and not so mindless to use like chi and holy power.
Remember we are rogues, we should never have had our resource system changed just to satisfy Paladin and monk re-rolls.
As for target swaps, redirect was a tool and it provided enough while keeping the decision making process a part of the play style.
3 Likes
Abso- god darn -lutely.
I started playing rogue in MoP and still main rogue now. I’ll never main anything else, rogue is the love of my life. But pre-Legion Sub spec is the most enjoyable gameplay I’ve ever experienced in WoW. Sub hasn’t been the same since pruning and class identity BS.
Mage shimmer doesn’t matter. Sin rogues can deal with it, Sub spec not having teleport shadowstrikes won’t hurt it if we had our gouge and garrote again. Same with DH zoom-zoom. We had Burst of Skill (speed) which would laugh at Demon Hunters. And even if we didn’t get BoS back (which we shouldnt) Sub can still do well.
If you don’t find it appealing then don’t play it lmao.
Sub spec is supposed to be a tunneling CC machine to control the fight and set-up kills.
How will we not cross CC? Shadowstep kick the healer, mage polys him while you Sprint back to the kill target for the Kidney Bomb set-up. Our rdruid/hpal/whatever CC’s the other DPS. In fact, cross CC capability increases because we’d have garrote and gouge back.
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Yeah because sin doesnt do anything aside from kidneying kill target every stun dr.
I don’t, that’s why i’m not a sin rogue lmao.
Also, that sounds like the most telegraphed setup in the world that nobody will fall for. Like I said, you seem to forget the fact that mages had deep freeze and don’t anymore.
Edit: Also if we actually get gouge and garrote back in exchange for giving up the utility we gained in legion, the strongest(and probably the only) viable RMx variation would be RMD which is actually the most cancerous one.
Utility gained in legion…
Nice a comedian on the Rogue forums.
You mean cheap shot spam? Shadow dance should be one charge. Their, unprune Gouge.
Problem solved.
Now pay me. 
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The only reason I do not like this is because if you guys get gouge you 100% ruin shaman in PVP. You already have kicks, stuns, and outlaw has gouge. Basically meaning shaman never get’s a real chance to defend itself XD. Can’t stun? Oh just gouge, he’s healing, well he has to fake cast in order to not get kicked. If you miss you can just use gouge or a stun or blind.
You guys do have quite a bit of utility to just destroy quite a few classes. I picked Shaman because I’m really familiar with how they fair against rogues and it’s not good at all XD.
Watch this.
Shamans are already ruined in PVP.
Unprune Gouge.
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That doesn’t make sense though haha. Why add insult to injury?
Welcome to the Rogue forums.
Have a seat.
Sounds toxic to me then. Only wanting to help just one class. I play multiple classes and you do have to think about the interaction it would have to give said skill to a class. I personally am loving my assassination rogue to death, but we have so much utility already that adding more and then turning a blind eye to certain classes just seems… disheartening. I’m really loving the idea of Frost DK though!
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Give back Gouge to Sub and Assassination.
It is the fair and logical thing to do for all of humanity.
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Let’s be honest, if Sub/Assa got back gouge then other aspects of the specs would need to be re-balanced around that having that new level of control. They can only throw out stuns like candy, to the point where it’s just about trying not to DR too much.