Easy fix.
One charge Shadow dance.
Now pay me. 
3 Likes
If you think 2 step charges and shadowstrike teleport is not utility then I’m not sure what to tell you. So you want gouge and garrote back on top of those things? Like I’ve mained rogue since cata and I want gouge and garrote back on sub as much as the next guy but that’s a whole new level of rogue-centrism
1 Like
Unprune Gouge.
That is an easy fix.
That’s not Rogue’s problem; that’s Blizzard’s problem for castrating Shaman’s defensives. Nature’s Guardian should be baseline (it baffles me how it isn’t already), Shamanistic Rage should replace Astral Shift, Stone Bulwark Totem should return as a talent, and MSW stack generation should have bad luck protection so Enhance can get quick, strong heals when it needs them.
For Subtlety, Enveloping Shadows needs to lose its 2nd charge of Dance so that Gouge can return.
Should have made first row for sub Gouge instead of premed. That way we can choose utility for pvp and m+ over more dmg chance
But you see, in order for you to get gouge back Blizzard has to think that’s okay even though you guys have pretty good utility and amazing dps. It’s why you see rogue and mage in A LOT of pvp arena matches. Utility + DPS.
For the record, I’m only advocating for Subtlety to get Gouge back. I’d be happy if Assassination got it back, but I wouldn’t care if it didn’t since its sustain is so high. For Subtlety, though, Gouge would be a wonderful tool for usage in the lulls between Shadow Dance windows. It would help for securing restealths and for setting up burst windows. My concern is that it can’t coexist with Enveloping Shadows as it is now (too many stuns), so I think the 2nd Shadow Dance charge needs to go.
2 Likes
Being able to restun again already on such a low cooldown is a problem my dude. I love sub personally. More than Assassin since assassin is just an easy spec honestly. But I just don’t anyone should have capabilities of reaching a stun that quickly. I don’t know of subs base skills too much cuz I recently made my rogue, but if you still have blind. Then no, You want multiple stuns + blind?
Mind you shaman doesnt even have a for sure stun. We have to drop ours in an area and hope it hits XD.
Yeah haha, lets not. Rogues are already disgusting.
1 Like
Subtlety has even more broken cc given they don’t need to vanish to sap during combat. Giving them gouge would be disgusting unless they removed shadow dance or nerfed their damage severely.
Can we not have a DK in this discussion though for real please
2 Likes
Then how about a person who plays shaman regularly? The situation the screams rogues dont need anything. If you don’t know that yiu probably don’t pvp
Bring back Gouge for Sub and Assassination.
It only makes sense to complete the specs. Let the greater unpruner hear of this decree!!!
3 Likes
Why are you trying to turn this thread into a Shaman problem? And Elemental has a pretty good stun on Lasso and Enhancement has a stun on Sundering, no?
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Gouge is not a stun. It’s an incapacitate that’s broken by damage.
Sub had Gouge for years without being broken. If you spammed it whenever you could, you were punished for it by the increased DR when you actually needed it. Gouge wouldn’t be an issue at all as long as we go back to one charge of Shadow Dance.
4 Likes
We are far worse now that our death strike has been nerfed the way it has. And unholy has poor sustain damage in arenas. We are not a god tier class. You guys on the other hand have blind, sap, repeatable cheap shots, a 6s stun, a 5 second interrupt on kick, and if you are assass a free 60% slow. Rogues are disgusting.
They can’t do anything while channeling lasso and it is easily interruptable. Also has a 45s cooldown. And sundering does not stun.
So why not sacrifice some of those stuns for an incapacitate that’s broken by damage? Not sure why you’re against this.
2 Likes
Because they likely won’t sacrifice your stuns. They would just give it to you. You can’t remove the cheap shot combo because it requires vanish unless you are sub. And kidney likely should be nerfered to 4s and your kicks interrupt should be as well. Rogue is the only melee interrupt that ints for 5 seconds instead of 4 for no reason. And a 6 seconds stun on what a 24s cooldown is pretty ridiculous. Somewhat balanced against 1 person because it is still drd when it gets off cd.
Then I guess you haven’t seen all the feedback on the beta forums asking for Gouge to be returned at the cost of Dance’s 2nd charge from Enveloping Shadows. We’re all aware we’d need to sacrifice stuns for Gouge, and that’s fine. This would be a net loss in CC capability considering we couldn’t keep an entire team stunned anymore and Gouge shares a DR with Sap and Blind.
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I always felt gouge was a consolation for being forced to use kidney for damage, now that that has been addressed is the only reason its exclusive is because of the lack of shadowstep on outlaw? Blade rush and hookshot exist.