The reason groups get toxic in the 8-14 range is because people aren’t carrying for valor anymore, all the players there have great 2-8 keys even though they probably did like 3k dps. You have people who have done 3 m+ dungeons ever being put into an 11 upper kara key. Smells like a disaster!
8-14 groups are a mix of the people who have paid their dues and the clueless (and why would they have a clue? valor farmers aren’t chatty overall - they are there for quick runs). The keyholders are carried and left with keys that are way too high for them. This puts them in an awkward position - especially if they don’t know how to delevel their key (explain this better in-game, Blizz).
These players should be practicing in 2-5s but they can’t get in because valor farmers are taking all the spots. Regular players can’t get into key levels they should be getting into. They don’t know what’s going on so they don’t list their own key and get the free carries, they get the paid carries which seem so convenient. A timed 15 GUARANTEE? With armor stack? I don’t know what that means but then I’ll finally into groups so let’s do it!
Valor farmers are slogging through these boring keys that aren’t challenging for them. But it’s the most efficient way to gear in M+ so I can’t blame them at all.
The only good parts: Skilled players getting higher keys on alts quickly is convenient. It’s nice to be rewarded for playing with your less geared/experienced friends.
TLDR: Valor farming in low keys is bad for the game.
Here’s what can be done about it. Make higher keys reward substantially more valor than lower ones, because even though it hurts people who play at the 2-6 level, at least they can play the game. Or, even better, buff end of dungeon ilvl and scrap valor.
5 Likes
or you know, you can make your own key and invite real +2-5 players
the whole post invalidated by the simple fact you can run a +2 forever with your key
6 Likes
Wow, you read that so fast.
if i wanna on my 240 monk i can queue up for my +2 key and invite all 300io players with no mains linked. now what
the deleveling of the key is pretty irrelevant, if you want to get into M+ you can do some research
if you want to play with real 2-5 players just run your key, nothing else at all matters.
How are they getting keys so high? Efficient valor farming comes from +2s.
Anyways, an easy fix would be for valor to scale higher, the higher the key level. If it’s faster to farm +2s for valor, there is something wrong with your system.
5 Likes
A 5 junkyard will be faster than a 2 streets, it depends which key they get.
What a coincidence! We had the same idea!
Anyone good enough would be spamming gambit or workshop.
1 Like
yeah but again - anyone can queue up their key and invite real low io players for a legit feeling key. literally it’s 4 clicks and you can do it.
The m+ community is degenerate no matter what Blizzard does.
I say that as someone that loves m+.
Cheers! 
3 Likes
You think this is bad? Wait until tomorrow when everybody deranks to farm conquest at low mmr. They need to do a better job about having conq/valor scale with the skill level of the content.
3 Likes
I don’t disagree and I addressed that in my post. But how many of those 50+ ilvl 230 people applying to your 2s actually know that deleveling exists? Or how to list their own key? Assumed knowledge is a big problem in WoW, and it’s hard to fix because the players don’t read anyway.
how long it takes to gear is pretty irrelevant because anyone who takes m+ seriously (in the slightest) will be in dungeon bis anyways. this season just expedited the process of being able to slam 20+ keys.
i promise you whether it takes a month or two weeks anyone who does m+ will be in dungeon bis.
this i can agree with on a simple level. yes there should be a system for people to ease into m+, at least a small tutorial or something.
1 Like
-unsheathes alt-
Mythic dungeons into low keys.
this season has been great for alts and i’m all for it. and yeah i always tell people mythic dungeons, but everyone argues with me that they get declined from everything.
simple solution is make ur own group obviously but people would rather complain than actually clicking 4 times and making a group and inviting whoever they want to THEIR group
+2s get filled up literally instantly right now.
On a conceptual level, sure I agree.
In practice, there are only 2 real keystone breakpoints. +8-9 and +13-14
Objectively, a +10 has the seasonal affix which make the dungeon easier. Especially in past seasons with more impactful seasonal things, I’d even go as far as say 7-9 keys were harder purely because they didn’t have the seasonal affix to power you up while having trash/bosses only slightly weaker than the +10 versions.
Along that same vein, +13 and +14 dungeons are barely any weaker than +15 dungeons but given that +15 dungeons are the minimum the good and quality players will aim for, your overall pool of applicants tends to be higher giving you vastly more chance of success that those lingering a few levels below.
What Blizzard needs to do is drop Fortified and Tyrannical altogether OR place it on +16 or +20 keys and put the seasonal affix as the 1st affix so every key has it (thus giving players early exposure to it and a positive affix to help since all the others are negatives). Keep the extra harmful affixes at 4, 7, 10, and maybe even 15. Without fortified and//or tyrannical, and with an extra affix in play that always makes you fundamentally change how you approach the dungeon, keys will not only be more exciting and engaging, but people will get better at handling affixes (or weed themselves out) and you can make truly superficial level of keys as brutal as you want without impacting the literal 99% of the other players.
2 Likes
it’s not that deep. make ur own group problem solved
This must be something you’re seeing on your end because I’m not seeing this on mine.
I can get into just about anything up to a 15 pretty easily. It probably doesn’t hurt that I play a Shaman and have Hero.
Admittedly, I am one of the valor farmers and people who invite valor farmers to get quick 10+ keys on alts. However, I’m friends with all types of players, and honestly I don’t think any other type of player but me is having fun. And to be real it’s not that fun to be pulling like 7k dps because I’m ilvl 240 while everyone else is doing 20k.
I made a shaman 2 weeks before the end of last season and as an experiment decided to unlink from my main and just run from a +2 up. It was a FANTASTIC experience. 2 to 5 to 8 to 10 to 12 and so on. I hit the 15 key, got free carry’s there too then dropped it to a 5 and did it again. Everyone assumed I was new, and were super helpful giving advice and sharing loot. It was honestly a real great experience and I think it’s all about the approach. I understand your point, but I think nerfing the valor in low keys would hurt more then help.