Unpopular opinion, the game would be just fine without M+

[Paeldryth-hyjal (Paeldryth)]

The game would be just fine without a lot of things, but it would also mean the game would just be worse.

[Saithis-shandris (Saithis)]

adrenaline comes in so many different flavors

[Imindril-moon-guard]

I agree with the OP.

[Semisonic-korgath]

@Candee-azuresong

It’s unpopular because the popular opinion is that the game would be better without M+.

This. I play World of Warcraft, not Diablo 3. I don’t want greater rifts.

[Lilithia-nagrand (Lilithia)]

No mythic+ is good for the game, I like the fact that if you disconnect during a mythic+ you can’t get kicked.

[Semisonic-korgath]

Oh yeah? Until that group decides you didn’t pull your weight for the zone, and boots you before the last boss then burns 60 seconds so you get graveyarded out and no loot/credit.

[Verothus-stormrage]

I cant unsee the diabloness of it, so I agree.

[Cellee-lothar]

Unpopular opinion, the game would be just fine without LFD/FR

Thats what OP sounds like right now

[Verothus-stormrage]

@Daark-cenarius

@Jayawan-moon-guard

I’ve been seeing this debate now rage on for years over M+ and how WoW would whither and die without it now. I completely disagree!!! The fact that the older versions of the game existed just fine without this Diablofication of the dungeon content speaks volumes in my opinion.

Existed fine? M+ was added specifically to address the millions of players that quit WoD over lack of content.

Next you will tell us that rated pvp has ruined wow.

Yet every expansion before WoD was fine… lack of Mythic+ was not WoDs problem, it was simply a lack of content.

And I guess therein lies the discrepency. You see mythic+ as content, I see it as Blizzard cheaping out.

I also find it interesting how people say there would be a bigger loot discrepency without M+. More difficulty levels ADDS more loot discrepency.

[Pumpindemons-area-52]

I think M+ has done a lot for the game.

[Alzaar-illidan]

@Jayawan-moon-guard

I completely disagree!!! The fact that the older versions of the game existed just fine without this Diablofication of the dungeon content speaks volumes in my opinion.

Meanwhile here in reality land, the last we have from Blizzard from before M+ was WoD which was filled to the brim with empty promises and cut content.

Sitting here saying the game would be fine because expansions from a decade, or longer, had enough content to keep people playing is a hilariously bad take.

@Jayawan-moon-guard

I personally think the only reason M+ gets any attention from the bulk of the casual player base is due to it’s ease of assembling groups for it and the fact that it gives people access to raid level gear without the hassle of raiding. I’d wager that a lot of players really don’t enjoy it, they just like the easy gear.

Given the fact the gear is largely useless this expansion, that’s a bold wager.

But you are partly right, at least for everyone I know. It’s engaging content that doesn’t require the headache of something like Mythic raiding with having to handle a 20+ man roster.

I know I’d be far more engaged in this game if they gave us back hardmode 10 man raiding.

@Jayawan-moon-guard

I doubt many people that signed up to play a MMORPGs envisioned speed running dungeons as a fun activity. I’d argue that most MMORPG players are probably fans of DnD which WoW and many other MMORPGs drew their inspiration from. Could you imagine sitting down to speed run a DnD session with your friends? Seems pretty ridiculous huh?

Nope, I couldn’t give the absolute smallest crap about DnD. I got into WoW because raiding and remain playing the game because raiding & pushing keys with friends remains fun.

@Jayawan-moon-guard

Anyway, I know that M+ is optional content, but one could argue that it does have an impact on the rest of the game. The e-sport nature that is based on has for sure influenced player behavior in the dungeon scene both in M+ and non M+ dungeons.

Please go on, give examples.

Zerging through dungeons existed long before M+ (Or even Challenge Modes) were a thing, and if they were to remove M+ it’d exist long after.

@Jayawan-moon-guard

I know M+ isn’t going anywhere, but it is nice to fantasize a version of hard dungeon content that isn’t based around FOTM classes, gimmicky afixes and having it’s main objective to beat a timer. I know you can ignore the timer, but this really limits your chances of fielding a group for it.

DPS not being invited isn’t because everyone is wanting to chase the meta (Unless we’re talking keys beyond 15), they’re not being invited because there’s dozens upon dozens that sign up within a few minutes of posting a group.

[Silverleigh-drakthul]

Regardless of it being anit-rpg, I have always defended the existence of M+ because so many people appeared to truly enjoy it.

But after all the crying about low drop rates making it useless to do, I am rethinking my belief.

@Jayawan-moon-guard

I personally think the only reason M+ gets any attention from the bulk of the casual player base is due to it’s ease of assembling groups for it and the fact that it gives people access to raid level gear without the hassle of raiding. I’d wager that a lot of players really don’t enjoy it, they just like the easy gear.

And all that crying backs up that theory.

[Fortuna-sentinels (Fortuna)]

By this logic, the game would be just fine without arenas, or pet battles, or mythic raids…

[Nyaria-argent-dawn (Nyariá)]

I don’t begrudge Mythic+'s existance.

I just personally hate that speed running is the only “higher difficulty” dungeon path that exists in the game, and the rather toxic community that spawns from said speed running community.

I wish blizzard would stop catering to the rush rush rush go go go crowd.

There should be a seperate dungeon progression that isn’t time based imho, make the mobs more difficult, give reason to engage in crowd control (Because mythic+ doesn’t, kite meta or lose your key) make us pick our targets carefully, not just zerg everything down and blast as much AOE as possible to clear the dungeon at a breakneck pace.

I don’t care that mythic+ Exists, I just find it dumb that standard mythic is as hard of a difficulty as you get without a stupid timer and diablo style affixes being thrown into the dungeon.

[Mada-caelestrasz]

@Foofighter-icecrown

Raids were so much better before they put that garbage into the game.

Hmm this is always subjective, but I feel like Nathria has been one of the most successful and well received raid tiers in many years. BoD was also really excellent. Timewalking always gives a good reminder of how basic the old raids were. In my opinion raiding is one area where the game has made significant progress.

[Bigspanky-area-52]

M+ Increases the longevity of content. It also adds a scaling level of difficulty. If you just went with similiar ilevels to raids, you would be talking about large difficulty jumps.

Normal= +5
Heroic= +10
Mythic= +15
But these difficulties would have to share a lockout with the raid as well as something that is able to ran infinite times wont equal the progression of something that can be ran once a week.

Blizzard also needed a way to get more longevity out of their content without just producing more content. This is due to content being consumed FAR faster than they can create it. Im sure they looked at a lot of metrics and saw that the time spent in their 5man dungeons, vs the time and resources invested in creating them was bad. So they had to come up with a way to extend their life over the duration of the expansion. M+ is an excellent way to do so.

I for one dont miss the days where after gearing through heroic dungeons, or reg mythics, you just had to raid or PvP. And you didnt really venture back, because there wasnt any reward there for you.

[Ardmccloud-frostmourne]

It would but that would mean Blizzard would have to work to make something to replace M +.

Effort is too high for WoW.

[Verees-lightbringer]

It’s strange. I only raid with pugs on this paladin. And it’s always a fantastic time. Mistakes and wipes are expected and unless there is a point where it’s like “if these people aren’t removed, we can’t progress more” the run is just chill. On the other hand, M+ pugs are some of the worst groups I have ever been in. I really want the timer to be an independent non-factor outside of leaderboards. The timer should have no effect on a group’s success or failure. So many people leave if there is the slightest chance of not timing the key. And I don’t blame them. Depleting a key leaves you with 1 piece of loot for 5 people. The timer should be something that people go against for fun. As an optional challenge on top of the m+ affixes. Throw some achievements/cosmetics for timing keys but that should be it. Just my 2 cents. If the timer remains, I will never do anything but the bare minimum of M+ because it’s a chore.

[Groovyman-malganis (Groovyman)]

M+ in and of itself is fine and in a lot of ways, a great boon to the game. MDI (and its sportsbro effect on the m+ meta) on the other hand …

[Kazthan-argent-dawn]

@Jayawan-moon-guard

MMORPG players are probably fans of DnD

What? How? Why?
I’m not.
At least I think their morality system is somewhat silly.