Unpopular Opinion: Racial Class choices should be far more limited than they are

The elements destroying Goria happened over 400 years ago. For reference, that’s older than the US’ founding. You’re going to see massive cultural shifts in that time, and even a single generation’s gap is massive.

For reference, as a mixed race person, I barely realised racism was a thing in my country and when I heard people teaching about it, it felt like it was ancient news, until my father told me about his experiences growing up. In a single generation, a major cultural belief went straight from ruining lives to barely affecting me.

If enough people cared and let their voices be heard they would change things.
Blizzard cares about money over all else.

The elements/ shamanism helped saved the orcs after their demonic corruption. There’s multiple situations where the orcs being into the elements have benefit them. Why they would betray them and become mages to start subjugating them against their will make no sense

Because they were born after and never experienced that corruption?

Plenty of children don’t end up following the same beliefs as their parents, especially in a setting where you have wars every few years and both sexes being used as soldiers.

There are likely a lot of orphans in this setting, and given their physical incapability of having their own children, Forsaken adopting orphaned orcs doesn’t feel like a stretch to me.

Arcane elementals are different then the fire/water/earth/air elementals used by shaman. Arcane used by mages molds into frost/fire. Not directly channeled from elementals like shamans. Also orcs descend from ogres. And if you know the lore a titan was basically responsible for the origination of orcs as both ogres and orcs descend from Gronn. Ogres are powerful mages innately. Wheras orcs descend from them had lost the magic knowledge but regained it with forsaken allies. Just makes sense for allies to teach each other how to fight. It would have been a bit stupid for them not to teach each other tbh and unrealistic.

So jaina didnt enslave a bunch of water elementals and thrall tell her to let them free…?

She has, but she also knows kul-tiran magic, but like the type of magic the playable character has is made from molding arcane elementals into frost/fire. They later on and expanded kultiran tide sage magic.

You can say for example tauren mages and pyromancers have more elemental based magics. But in wow mages are wielding arcane and molding it to fire/frost. Whatever suits their needs. Then you have lore expanding with elemental planes mages wanting to learn with elemental magics. Then you have characters like the shaman in dragonsoul who was a former shaman and turned mage using both frost and lightining magic. The game allows for so much unique ways to use the lore. Class swapping is something npcs do in lore a bunch. Honestly class swapping in lore can also help explain new options as it did for old. Like mages turned evil = warlock. mage/druid= evil warlock + demon magic = Illidan= demonhunters. Demonhunters are a mix of various schools of magic based on a curious mage like Illidan who was also trained to be a druid.

Cant agree with this topic at all. I do not miss seeing only tauren druids running around on the horde, or night elf ones for alliance. Only draenei shamans, or only blood elf paladins. There is no reason to keep an artificial barrier in place for class race combos. Over the years other races would have picked up the abilities to do other things. Like seriously, wogen couldn’t even be monks till dragonflight!!!

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You mean in SL which they’ve cemented into the game’s lore and tied to other stories and even this latest expac making it permanent? After the ruination of the game’s lore from that it doesn’t matter what else they do.

I mean at this point you people are pointing at the charred remains of a castle that Blizz blew up and complaining that they’re doing some graffiti in a corner of it.

The lore is ruined. They never cared about the lore after year 2, these restrictions were kept in place out of dev whimsy (same reason they gave players void elves, not high elves, not because it makes more lore sense (it doesn’t at all), but because they’d rather do that). And writers who write from the point of view of whatever the current whim is are never going to stick to their own rules or even have consistency.

Their long-time argument about why we couldn’t have high elves? Not enough population left. Yet we’re to believe a fraction of a fraction of the blood elves (already a ruined, diminished, depopulated and devastated people) went heretical, dabbled in evil magic and now there’s enough for a playable race? Ridiculous doesn’t begin to describe it. Just contempt for players.

They gave up on the lore at the tail end of legion when they began planning for what was next. Final patch and on-ward just jumped the shark with ying/yang void elves and light draenei and then BFA and Sylvanas and Arthas retcons and Jailer retcon insertion and SL and on and on. You’re not in Kansas anymore, nor in the Azeroth you or I may have initially grown to love that existed up until that point. I question at this point why nitpick about this of all things then?

At least in lore there is this basis for the fact that these classes are NOT tied to racial gods that favor a given people and allow them to practice it. There’s no reason a draenei can’t become a rogue if they put on some soft-soled shoes, maybe they’ll never be as good of one as an elf or a goblin but there’s no reason they can’t try. Likewise no reason that there can’t be heretics, foolish people who shun the customs or religion of their people to practice dark magic. The argument again against it is “well there wouldn’t be enough of them to be represented in game by players” which as seen with the high elf thing was always nonsense and hardly a good one.

Yes there are certain hard-restrictions barred by lore they shouldn’t cross. Void Elves cannot be light-wielding priests, they cannot be paladins. They are infused with a contradictory and incompatible type of magic and the fault there is Blizzard’s for creating them in place of high elves and the player for choosing one.

I personally think the insertion of Man’ari red skinned eredar is probably a mistake if only for the reason that canonically there’s no reason for them to be allowed in cities and not murdered on sight. Unlike death knights which had no choice in their creation as abominations, who were dominated by dark magics from re-birth until the defeat of the LK at light’s hope chapel and who were welcomed in to fight their very own former master, these types cannot claim that, they appeared after BFA when the Legion was no longer a threat, coming to us as a defeated enemy who CHOSE to embrace the fel gift and serve the Legion. I don’t think most Alliance citizens would be okay with them being around. At the very least they should get rotten fruit thrown at them randomly in cities.

But those are a tiny carve-out. There’s no reason you can’t have a (purified, non-fel corrupted) blood elf who studied to become a druid or shaman.

I agree. I think it’s time to decouple combat bonuses from races.

Instead allow all characters to choose one combat bonus regardless of race of their choice in talents or something. Keep flavor racial bonuses like goblin discounts on vendors or bank summon spells. I’d even say Night Elves should keep shadowmeld as it’s not really a bonus in most cases for raiding or pushing mythic keys so it’s more flavor though it is a utility.

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That’s a nice idea but not really practical in reality.

People complained in Cata where freaking goblins of all races could become shaman. You know, the notoriously greedy and exploitative race. People used all sort of excuses and mental gymnastics to justify their existence. Lore has only gotten further off the rails since then.

And no one’s going to unsub over a race/class combo.

People quit for lore all the time.
Don’t start saying rude things like “that’s a nice thought” when you don’t even know what you’re talking about.

Quite honestly as someone who plays primarily for RP I love how you can play almost any race/class combo at this point. The character ideas opened up by the possibility of Tauren or Nelf Warlocks or Mag’har/Zandalari DKs are immense. The only issue is it depends on your ability to work within the confines of the lore and actually be creative instead of having to have everything spoonfed to you as “this race can be this but can’t be this because blah blah.”

The entire idea of warlocks is that they are spellcasters who took the shortcut to power, for one reason or another. You could have a Kaldorei who turned to the Fel after the burning of Teldrassil in rage at Sylvanas’ actions. You could have a Tauren who seeks to understand and possibly tame the Fel, seeing them as just another part of nature, and you could play with the idea of that Tauren slowly becoming more and more Fel-corrupted, growing more sympathetic to the ideas and cause of the Burning Legion.

The entire idea of Rogues is they are thieves, outlaws, and tricksters. There are canonically already Tauren who act as “Rogues,” see Mr. Smite. The Outlaw spec is quite literally just being a Pirate. If anything the idea of “they can’t be rogues because they’re too big” is stupid when you consider that Orcs were allowed to be Rogues since Vanilla.

The lore of Death Knights is only truly “bent” or “broken” if you rigidly look at it from the perspective of “every DK was created by Arthas.” One of my favorite character ideas I ever rolled was a Mag’har Blood DK, a Bleeding Hollow orc who underwent some dark ritual to bring himself in tune with the tribe’s blood magic and become an unstoppable beast. Zandalari Blood DKs could easily be devotees to a fringe cult of Hireek or even Ghuun, hell Zandalari Frost DKs could even work from the angle of a group of Zandalari trying to revive the Loa of the Drakkari.

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Here is the BIGGEST issue with that when you live in a world where magic is not hard to manipulate and said world is inhabited by creatures with IQs above room temperature: People learn stuff. The one that learns will often teach it, and, soon you have enough people that learned the new thing that having that new thing become an option. It’s especially so with how many time-skips Blizz likes to hit us with. Sure, Blizz’s execution might be clunky, but having more options is perfectly viable. It’s how stuff got passed on irl, and these in-game races are pretty much just us with some extra flavor.

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Metzen himself said becoming a mage is as hard as becoming an Astronaut irl.
Sorry but I don’t see Orcs suddenly being able to do all the heavy book learning and high level arithmetic required to become a mage in the past 20 years or so.

I also don’t see races abandoning 1,000yr old traditions for no reason. Tauren were always exposed to Warlocks during their wars with the centaur, and they CHOSE not to become Warlocks themselves.

Being exposed doesn’t automatically mean you’re going to become that thing.
At my work I’m exposed to 100s of Chinese citizens, does that mean I now want to go apply for Chinese citizenship?

Your argument is not sturdy.

Letting every race play every class also makes it harder to balances races.

Like there is no reason not to pick the best racial if that race can be every single class in the game.

I can see the upsides of letting players have free reign to make whatever character they want.

But I’ve also DMed a lot of DnD games. And let me tell you, if you give players that much freedom they will come up with the worst, most cringe character concepts you didn’t even think were imaginable.

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You’re missing a very important part of the puzzle; becoming a warlock is in lore very easy in comparison to becoming a mage, shaman, or druid. And no matter what, any sentient being is susceptible to the temptation of power. Tauren warlocks would 100% exist, they would just be on the fringe of Tauren society. Just like warlocks are anyways in Human, Dwarven, Orcish, Blood Elven, Worgen, etc. society.

That’s definitely true, but I feel like in the environment of an RP server it’s a lot less obnoxious because you have the ability to just type /ignore.

Orcs have working brains and are around Blood Elves, who already have a massive understanding of it. There will be Orcs that learn to use magic in that way. Hard doesn’t mean impossible. We have plenty of astronauts irl. Just because you may not see it, does not mean it is not plausible.

And yet any individual can literally choose to be one. Your argument here is about choice. These races are not hiveminds.

Obviously. Nowhere in my post did I say that. This statement does not pertain to the topic at hand. We’re talking about learning skills.

You need to re-read what you type out. Make sure it conveys what you want it to. You did not post a strong argument. When you brought the factor choice into a section, it defeated itself.

racial determinism is stupid and so are you for pushing this crap

dry your tears cryboomer