I’m shuddering in horror. The thought of Naga getting passed up for Harronir in Midnight is terrifying. There’s an entire thread dedicated to mentioning how goofy they look. I’ll quit the game again if this happens.
Qin very possibly was poisoned. And even Qin wasn’t as bad as Azshara.
You are the one I suspect needs more knowledge on this topic.
LMFAO comparing Azshara to Constantine is just outright delusional.
We don’t KNOW if Nero was as bad as the nearest thing to contemporary sources we have would have us believe. My comparison to the common depiction of Nero is definitely closer than Constantine.
Doesn’t matter if some Naga we fight don’t express discontent with Azshara as they die. We do not know that the vast majority of Naga are like that. We only know that many of her loyalists are like that. You are literally changing the topic. Fact is, rulers like Azshara generally FAIL with precious few exceptions, most of whom also tend to die horribly.
I and others have already explained everything working against it…
Every rebel and usurper is a traitor until they win. So yes, I want to play traitors. Because that’s the only way playable Naga that Red and Blue would be willing to work with makes sense.
Wild Gods are more like demi gods compared to entities like Elune or Sargeras. They may be worshipped, but they definitely are more like demi gods.
Says you.
Symbolism is irrelevant. I have actual sources stating she is not seen as a full goddess. You only have speculation and extrapolation.
Priestess Zaldraxia:
- “Impudent SCUM! Our people will finally have our magic sated. No more thirsts! No more yearning!”
- “You! You have ruined everything… the frogs were meant to feed our magic for years!”
- “Why… we were so close… to never thirsting for magic… again…”
Even if we hadn’t seen it demonstrated or stated again to be a problem since wc3, that would be irrelevant. Even without the Naga’s actions on Nazmir, there had not even been the slightest bit of evidence contradicting Vashj’s statement in wc3. You can not dispute canon simply because the canon is old.
It is to be taken as fact until directly retconned or shown to be one of the very few things the Titans did not understand. The titans know more than most.
You are ignoring canon.
Any of the Man’ari not being evil was a retcon, yes. Retconning lore is by definition, bad writing, not something you deem as bad writing just because “That’s not how the world work”. In a world where magic and all sorts of unrealistic mind-corruption exists, that is indeed how the world works, especially when a race is described as being one entirely suffering from addiction, which makes it much harder to be a good person. For all we know the friendly Man’ari are still mostly evil and have selfish ulterior motives.
Some of the void elves are in fact former High Elves. There’s a reason helfers are overwhelmingly made fun of, anyway. Expecting absolutely every little thing to be exactly as you want it to be happy is childish, and unreasonable. High Elves, and anything resembling their depiction is a lame, unoriginal concept for Warcraft anyway. Not the same as Naga.
You don’t actually get to decide who is a true Naga based on who among them they accept as their leader.
The difference, is the amount of terrible stuff the current Najatar empire and particularly its leader has done to red and blue and the world in general that makes it unfeasible for red and blue to ever consider giving them a chance on their side, working directly alongside them. Playable Naga would be less reckless than Azsharan loyalists, and likely more desperate for help. Still evil, but willing to hide it around red and blue for the time being. Willing to slowly but surely earn trust, and make themselves indispensable to their new allies in their rebellion against Azshara.
Based on what we saw, no. Her power did not save them. The deal with N’zoth did. They were going to drown with or without her until N’zoth made a deal with her.
If your creator and your mother sees you as expendable, then there is absolutely nothing wrong with rejecting them. And again… Azshara is not the creator of the Naga. N’zoth was.
Idc about your lore speculation and opinion about the origins of the Highborne.
We don’t know that for certain. We don’t get to decide that one way or the other. What you believe is not fact
Whether or not there was, or is another Highborne as strong willed as Azshara for the situation is something we can only speculate on. We know Illidan, not even a Highborne, had a will as strong as hers. There may have been another. We may never know.
Speculation, and more importantly what she did, she did only for herself. Not her people. Like everything else she does. In addition, many Naga have little to no memory of their former lives. Their minds have been seriously messed with because of N’zoth.
Azshara didn’t do jack sheisse. They were going to end up freed from N’zoth either way because we were going to get Xal’atath and kill N’zoth either way, whether she gave it to us or not.
Yes. Seems very in character for a literal den of snakes like the Naga to betray the one who saved and enabled their creation, whether they understand or not that she only saved them because she used them as a bargaining chip for her deal with N’zoth. Spitting in the face of your blatantly selfish, narcissistic mother sounds very much like something a bunch of incredibly proud, egocentric, power-hungry snakes in the seagrass would do.
How Naga culture came to be is irrelevant. The only question is whether it could be the same if Azshara were usurped. Which it certainly could.
Which all wild gods basically are.
No, I am not saying that. If you can not argue without making crap up then you are not capable of arguing in good faith and I will not bother with you.
Lmfao “the only one” I have provided more than just one piece of evidence. The evidence is not bs. You just don’t like the evidence because it conflicts with your obsession and your very narrow view of what the Naga need to be. You are not capable of arguing this coherently, let alone objectively.
The fact the Twilight’s Hammer was meeting with Skar’this’ emissary in Zoram Strand is because it was a coastal region where the cult was most active. It made the most sense for Naga, including ones not loyal to Azshara, to meet the Twilight’s Hammer there. Any other reason is purely your speculation, which is irrelevant. No, it is not playing devil’s advocate to say Skar’this does not work for the Old Gods. It is all but stated canon. Skar’this sees NEPTULON as the one true god. His own words. Not the Old Gods, Neptulon.
Whether you find it makes sense is, again, irrelevant. For all we know they had a way to portal Ahune directly from Zangarmarsh to somewhere on Azeroth. And even if not… so what if he was going to travel from Zangarmarsh to the Dark Portal? What tf does that even matter?
That in no way changes that Skar’this is in fact a leader of one of two factions, (three if you count the two tribes that joined the Legion as two) of Naga we have encountered that are not loyal to Azshara, and that we have Blizz itself saying there are likely more.
Right. I put all this effort into an elaborate thread because I secretly hate or don’t care about the Naga. Lmfao. The absolute delusion…
Complicated situations make for great writing opportunities. Chances to embellish and expand on the lore. If some Highborne had enough of a problem with Azshara to leave before being turned into Naga, some others may have had serious reservations too but were not quite ready to outright leave or rebel until it was too late to escape the Sundering. Others may have actually been plotting to overthrow her from within her own court for a long time, possibly even before her pact with Sargeras, but the conspiracy simply never got far enough before the Sundering because of how hard it was to pull off such a thing from within her palace and its immediate surroundings for a number of reasons.
You could still have former Kaldorei Highborne amongst the rebels.
In your clearly incredibly delusional and biased opinion. She was willing to sacrifice everyone but those in her immediate court. People she knew adored her. Even Highborne that were living away from Zin-Azshari were not safe.
Being Queen is about power for Azshara. Especially in the sense Azshara wanted to be Queen. To her, they clearly have always been one and the same. Power, and self-obsession. She didn’t have to outright say “Powerrrr!!! Gimme moar!” for that to be obvious.
If she felt that she could find new subjects, which she most definitely could, and saw the chance to even better improve her station, control, and yes, POWER, at the cost of all her current subjects, then it is pretty damn clear she’d sacrifice every single one of her current subjects, and move on to find/create new ones, perhaps ones that she decided would be better than her current ones. And like I said, it does not MATTER if she isn’t willing to sacrifice ALL of her people. She could be willing to sacrifice the vast majority of the Naga and that still is completely unacceptable. That still is not a true leader.
Again, Sylvanas only proves my point. She’s gone. Blizz got rid of her from a position leading us after she did anything as bad as Azshara. She’s certainly is not going to be the same leader she once was even if she does come back. The Horde will never let her back in after what she’s done. No matter how bad you want it because of how hard you simp for that corpse.
She is an entirely different person now. And as trashy of writing as it was to have her horrible actions be copped out with “I was missing half my soul and thus deserve the chance at redemption for my absolutely unforgivable actions now that I got it back.” That at least gives her some excuse. Azshara has no such excuse.
Lilian Voss is freaking awesome.
Azshara did not create the Highborne. She did not “allow” them to tap into the well. They had been doing that already. She helped ensure the Highborne culture continued, but that likely was going to happen with or without her. She was a product of said culture, not the other way around.
The second time she helped almost destroy the world was when she allied with Deathwing. The third was when N’zoth almost won because of her. Doesn’t matter if she intended to double cross N’zoth, we do not know if she would have succeeded, and by helping N’zoth she did in fact help almost destroy the world. Again.
Both Garrosh and Sylvanas were rejected by the Horde because of their actions and will almost certainly never be accepted into the Horde, let alone in a position of power and authority because of that.
What even is this argument you are trying to make here?!
Thank you vm for sharing this. Need as much of this sort of thing as we can get on this thread.
