Unoffical Playable Saberon Discussion Thread

[Ashfeet-moon-guard (Ashfeet)]

@Lore-herod

my main reason for leaning horde on them though is how much easier it’d be to gain a relationship with them through the trolls.

My main issue with this is that it’s based on, since the followers of Bethekk and Shirvallah can turn into cat humanoids, that they would befriend an unrelated cat people. They don’t really have any shared history, culture, or possible wild god/loa. It’s merely a superficial link.
The same way I doubt trolls would have easier than any other race to befriend bat humanoids if we ever found some, only because the trolls worship Hir’eek and his high priest transformed into a bat humanoid in vanilla ZG.

I’m not saying they can’t go Horde, just that I don’t think the troll link is a good reason.

[Lore-herod]

While the Alliance would benefit more from Saberon gameplay wise, they still make more sense from a lore standpoint on the Horde. The bad history with the Orcs isn’t entirely valid. We know decades passed on Alternate Draenor, and it’s likely the Laughing Skull switched from hunting them to dealing with the Lightbound. By the time some Saberon had arrived on Azeroth, they may have never even experienced the Orcs harming them. If anything, they more likely saw the Lightbound Draenei causing harm to them.

As for the Troll thing. They’re not exactly an unrelated people. The Claws of Shirvallah resemble Saberon entirely, implying the trolls did have some kind of fascination with them due to potentially seeing a resemblance with their own Loa. It’s also a growing theory that at least one of Draenor’s Primal Gods (Sethe) later came to Azeroth and was reborn as Hakkar. Given that, as mentioned in my post, the vast majority of animal-like humanoids originated from Wild Gods/Primal Gods/Loa that Saberon also did. There could easily be an origin link between Saberon and Shirvallah/Bethekk.

[Vhisic-caelestrasz]

what does a band of nomadic hunters bring to the faction that adopts them? Why does the horde or alliance want them other than fighting capacity? what is their contribution?

[Ashfeet-moon-guard (Ashfeet)]

So you base this on theories, and not the very little lore we already know. So I can’t in good conscience accept that they currently based on the little we know lean more to Horde.

@Lore-herod

The bad history with the Orcs isn’t entirely valid. We know decades passed on Alternate Draenor, and it’s likely the Laughing Skull switched from hunting them to dealing with the Lightbound. By the time some Saberon had arrived on Azeroth, they may have never even experienced the Orcs harming them. If anything, they more likely saw the Lightbound Draenei causing harm to them.

We know they had a bad history with the orcs, sure it could have changed as you say, but the point of that is that it’s a theory and not real lore. The last we knew of them is that they have/had a bad relationship with orcs and the moment they arrived on Azeroth they fled. No more, no less.

@Lore-herod

As for the Troll thing. They’re not exactly an unrelated people. The Claws of Shirvallah resemble Saberon entirely

Because the tigon model is really outdated and they used the saberon instead. Also most cat humanoids will look closely related. It’s stated that they took on the form like those of shirvallah’s champions, not saberon.

@Lore-herod

implying the trolls did have some kind of fascination with them due to potentially seeing a resemblance with their own Loa.

I don’t see how you arrived at this outside of the model reuse. Sure it’s possible that the trolls would be interested in them for the similarity, but we didn’t see a single troll voice this or hear anything about this. So this is also speculation and a theory. So not lore.

@Lore-herod

It’s also a growing theory that at least one of Draenor’s Primal Gods (Sethe) later came to Azeroth and was reborn as Hakkar.

This is the first time I’ve heard of it, we also don’t have a single example of a wild god being reincarnated on another planet. So it’s a theory without support as well. And as you say yourself, it’s a theory. So also not lore.

You can not base which faction a race should be on due to so many might and if’s.
It’s like Alliance sethrak. Or anyone saying that saurok lean more to either faction etc. It’s not based on existing lore.

The strongest point for Horde Saberon at the moment is that they ran into Horde controlled lands. And this opens up for future plot developments that would push them Horde. But currently they don’t lean more to the Horde.

[Lore-herod]

Currently they do indeed lean more towards the Horde. If you don’t agree, that’s mostly on you. While making this thread I consulted several people that are invested in the lore like myself, and we all came to the same conclusions. Besides, there are other Draenor races that make more sense for the Alliance rather than Horde. Arakkoa for example, and even Botani.

Saberon have essentially no ideals or mannerisms that align with the Alliance either. Compared to Horde which already has a few races that have tribal/clan cultures.

Anyways, bring on the Saberon. Would be nice if Blizzard added a way to see them on Azeroth permanently rather than just for a short second. They could easily add in some non-targetable NPCs that jump between trees, or simply hide in trees/bushes, or even just some stealthing around.

They could even do the same for Botani.

[Raionmajikku-moon-guard]

Okay I just read this, after I reply I’ll read the replies and posts of the other people. ANYWAY, in Draenor AU it’s been over 30 years, and they’ve been fighting the light bound… SOO it’s not too difficult to imagine that a number of saberon would have allied with some Orcs as a means to survive. So it could be possible that the saberon heart rituals and them eating orcs for the MOST part, have stopped possibly.

However we don’t know if they have, so that’s completely speculative sadly, as for leaders… looks at Leo and the big tiger follower I have a couple candidates in mind. If we go the Leo route (the Shaman Saberon follower who became more calm and intelligent by consuming Apexis) we don’t HAVE to say it was him specifically, what if it was his kid? Think of it this way, after the victory on Draenor, Leo continues consuming apexis, becomes more and more intelligent, finds a mate, has a few cubs… And those cubs carry on that very intelligence, if not EVEN MORE intelligent than. NOW, imagine if Leo got MORE saberon to consume apexis crystals, who then had cubs of their own, you see where I’m going with this yeah? This would wipe away the concern about them being too savage or feral for them to be an allied race, then maybe have the Tauren or Night Elves get in contact with them, and teach them a little bit more about civilization during our time in the Shadowlands, and boom there ya go, saberon who are intelligent enough to be an allied race! ALTHOUUUGH, I would hope that they developed some sense of honor, since again if they spent time with Orcs it would only make sense ye? And with that, we move onto religion. Now, I roleplay a Saberon, and what he is, is just a carry over of my ESO character, Val’duka Shadowclaw, a khajiit chieftain of the Shadowclaw Tribe. Me and a number of friends created our own lore, and I’ll admit I took some inspiration from the WoW orcs <_< Now, the tribe worships someone called O’hama, in the Taagra (Khajiit language) tongue that means nature, and they seek a life of honor and glory, however they are still rather savage, believing that eating someone’s corpse is a way to show respect and honor their life (However had to retcon that since some people were uncomfortable with that in the guild). Now on top of this, they weren’t afraid to torture or “play” with their food, nor stabbing someone in the back, since they had a strange sense of honor, (namely to keep a savage feel to it) NOW incorporate THAT with the Saberon, and add some changes. Make them worship Shiverallah (sorry if I mispelled that) in place of O’hama, and mix the savagery we know and love about the saberon, with a sense of honor and we got an interesting culture behind them! They could honestly be like, two sides of the same coin with worgen in a sense, Worgen worship Hir- I mean Goldrinn whistles innocently Heh MEANWHILE, the Saberon worship Shivirallah! Sorry if I’m getting a wee bit carried away, just thinking of different cultures for different races gets me a bit excited, and I just start going all crazy with different ideas. It’s one of my favorite topics when discussing possible or new playable races.

Heritage Armor, YES, give us something boney, and tribal as all heck, but if we’re saying they’ve been on Azeroth for the past 2+ years after Shadowlands… Would it not be possible that they’ve started implementing some metal into their armor as well? Maybe they got it from stealing supplies from local, I forget the word, uhhh trader convoys? CARAVANS!! Ye, with that in mind, I could imagine like little metal scraps in certain parts of their armor and weapons, just… Blizzard don’t go too heavy on the metal, because we still gotta have that tribal feel to it dangit! ANYWAY, I’m thinking like what we see on the usual saberon models, get some bones, maybe a hood with a couple feathers hanging off the side of it, big bones on the shoulder pads, maybe even an animal skull, then toss in some metal scraps that’d hold some pieces together. Could make it look like a mixture between rogue/Druid, Hunter, priest, and warrior y’know? That way it could fit any class!

Faction Wise, I don’t care if they’re Horde, OR Alliance, because either way I’ll be race changing one of my Val’duka’s. Either the Mag’har, or the Worgen, both of em are Saberon IC (In Character) and were made specifically for that purpose. Truth be told, I can see Saberon fitting either faction, all just depends on what path Blizzard takes them, like you said Lore, the nightelves could show a big interest in the Saberon, especially if they worship a wild god or Loa, and take them in like the worgen and as they say, show em the ropes. Same goes with the tauren, ESPECIALLY if somehow, some way, Blizzard goes a similar route with the culture like the one I mentioned earlier, they see the Tauren, let em in (if a little stand offish because of the past, worried they may have came on unfriendly terms but decide to give em a chance that could go for either Ally or Horde) and after learning more about the Horde they say "Well these people are honorable, and have proven to be strong… Let’s see if they have more to offer. And they join em, but there are SO many different possibilities for the saberon with factions, they could work for both Horde and Alliance, the choice is just limited by Blizzards Imagination!

Models, well we already know a bit from the male models, and I do agree that the female worgen model would work perfectly for the female saberon… Although I do think a few edits might work better for the saberon. Example, Dance… I can’t imagine a saberon dancing like a worgen without seeing it as a joke, or possible cringe, so maybe give them a bit more rigid, and even tribalistic looking dance? Something that could incorporate their claws y’know, and could do that for a few more emotes. Voice lines, I imagine they’d have a few jokes that’d be poking fun at the Worgen, and even Vulpera, maybe all the other beast races. Roar though… That I’d be VERY interested in hearing, give us something REALLY savage and beastial, let us hear that they are still monsters!

Banner, well I think they’d probably use an animal hide and some paint, and if it now consists of multiple Saberon Clans like the Mag’har does, then again it only makes things a bit more interesting I think. Meanwhile Racial wise, truth be told I’m kinda leaning more towards Shredding Net, and Claws in the Night, especially the net since I think that’d be very useful in PvP, or in dungeons when a NPC is running away to pull more stuff to you and wipe your party. The Roar could also work quite well, and for priests could be like another scream for them! Apex Predator, YES, YES YES YES, GIMME! It makes PERFECT sense for them! As for mounts, I’d love to have a panther (or really any kind of feline) decorated in tribal armor, maybe even offer various colorations of it :>

Sorry for how long this is, just really like Saberon, been wanting a feline race since MoP, and when I saw the druid talent in WoD AND Saberon NPC’s I was so excited that we may eventually get them as an actual race! ANYWAY, I’ma read the other comments now <_<

[Fugubar-thrall (Fugubar)]

A selection of FFXIV Hrothgar catmen (no females for this race…)

Show your Hrothgar!

[Fezzy-draenor (Fezzy)]

@Lore-herod

Unfortunately, there is very little we know about the Saberon.

Do you have chronicle?

There is a section there where one tribe of Saberon long ago learned to shoot down the Arakkoa and caused a bit of a kerfuffle for them. Just another piece of lore you might look into and add on here.

@Lore-herod

We don’t know what their origins are, but using simple logic for how most animal races originate it stands to reason a Wild God-like entity created them.

Given that they come from Draenor this might not be entirely true and even on Azeroth not all beast races have been confirmed to have come from Wild Gods/Loa/August Celestial like beings.

Draenor had a massive overabundance of the Element of Spirit and a great deal of life sprang up because of it. While the Sporemounds tended to overtake much of it, the only Wild God like creatures we really hear of are the three flying ones, Sethe, Anzu and Ruhkmar.

Not saying its certainly not possible but there isn’t much of a reason to believe they did either.

@Lore-herod

Let’s take a look at their race and Druidism for a moment. If anyone played a Druid during WoD, they’ll recognize the talent “Claws of Shirvallah” which changed the Cat Form into a Saberon. Shirvallah is a Zandalari tiger loa also revered by the Gurubashi and Darkspear trolls. With that information in mind, recall the Tigon. the Tigon is a creature resembling a humanoid big cat, so far primarily seen in the form of troll priests taking on the aspect of the feline loa Shirvallah and Bethekk. By the time of the war against the Iron Horde, troll druids had created a way for all druids to take on a half-cat form like those of Shirvallah’s champions through the “Claws of Shirvallah”.

I’m all for Druid being one of their classes… but I don’t really see any particular reason to link them to the Trolls… they shouldn’t have any connection to them at all given the different planets.

@Lore-herod

Another reason pushing them to the Horde, albeit not entirely meaningful, is that they use the male Worgen skeleton. This would give the Horde access to the skeleton, which seemed to be a trend when it came to the Allied Races during their introductions.

But… Wow only did that for two races… Hardly a trend.

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Happy to see a thread for Saberon pop up though. They’d be a nice race to add to the game along with races like Saurok, Sethrak, Arakkoa, Ethereals, and a whole lot of others.

[Lore-herod]

Meow Meows Now Nows

[Raionmajikku-moon-guard]

I play Hrothgar on FFXIV, and as much as I love the race like the saberon they don’t have very much lore. I’d even say that the saberon have more lore than them… That and their customization is very limited. As much as I love those brutes, I’d rather have a savage cat person with more customization.

[Sarm-malganis (Sarm)]

First thing I did when the hrothgar came out was to see how much I could make my auction house aide look like a behemoth because I wanted to see how an anthro Byblos attempt would work out.

Not too well, sadly. D:

[Zynthyr-area-52]

Well put together.

I could care less what allied race they add as long as it’s different from typical orc/human like imo

[Raionmajikku-moon-guard]

So culture, and overall lore behind the saberon, what do you think could prove a possible advantage, or add onto the possibility for saberon being an allied race? Assuming Blizzard actually reads these forums, could even give em less work to do by putting ideas here

I have a good idea for culture, and if you guys want I can post about it, although I did bring mention of it in an earlier post. Made it three days ago, so not too much scrolling!

[Sarm-malganis (Sarm)]

I had a weird idea that I don’t know would pan out well in the long run but:

I remember Leorajh having stilted speech but instead of retconning that out or changing it, you could roll with it in a different direction. Saberon could talk like cavemen not because they’re too stupid to talk normally, but because it’s actually difficult for them to do so. Instead, you could make their racial language a form of sign language that they use to communicate with themselves instead, reserving their caveman-style speech for when they have to talk to outsiders, and their way of speaking is just to cut to the meat of what they say in fewer words.

[Lore-herod]

Feel free to post it!

As for a lore advantage behind introducing Saberon as an Allied Race:

Many people in the lore community believe the next expansion will be a Cataclysm 2.0 with a massive world revamp and a return to old zones. This would provide an easy use for a Barrens zone. This would bring both the Alliance and Horde to the Barrens with a Saberon vs. Botani story. It would also bring a great return to the Evergrowth, which I always felt was missed out on during WoD.

[Bagzak-rexxar]

I recall there being rumors of a Barrens warfront back in BfA, and I’m wondering if the Saberon and Botani that ran away during the Mag’har unlock scenario would’ve played some part in it.

Of course, that warfront never came to be, but it still remains as an interesting plot point. At least in terms of Saberon, I’d be curious to know what they’d be up to in the Barrens. There likely would be quite a few that came with us back from Draenor, since there are quite a lot of Mag’har Orcs and other denizens from Draenor that came with us. It isn’t out of the question that more than what was shown for Saberon and Botani could’ve also come.

@Lore-herod

Many people in the lore community believe the next expansion will be a Cataclysm 2.0 with a massive world revamp and a return to old zones.

I honestly would not mind this. They made a new starting zone, so a new world revamp (which is very needed) would be great to see. Not to mention being back on Azeroth would be a very welcome sight for me personally. It also brings some opportunities for new races to become playable as well.

@Lore-herod

Saberon vs. Botani

I’ll be on team Saberon!

[Rogmarr-kelthuzad]

Saberon and Botani rivalry would be pretty interesting. Maybe even a subplot with Botani helping the Night Elves restore parts of Ashenvale and Felwood helping explain why they would be accepted into the Alliance.

While with Saberon, maybe making the Quillboar and Centaur a viable threat to the Horde again. Recruiting the Saberon being instrumental in helping them quell this threat and maintain control over the Barrens and other parts of Southern Kalimdor.

[Onatah-draenor]

Yes! I love this idea!

Alliance, Horde I don’t care make Saberon playable please for us cat lovers.

[Raionmajikku-moon-guard]

Alright so, this is based off of some Homebrew lore me, and 2 of my original admins, then later on 2 more, all of which were close friends. So I cannot take all the credit for these ideas… I just gave the base idea, being what God they worshipped, honor, and their uhh… Eating habits my friends and guild helped me build onto it with the story of the guild. Also not going to give all the details concerning the homebrewed lore, since I wanna keep certain things, as only something you’ll see in the guild or our general community. But I’ll bring up some of the more important/bigger stuff we show! I honestly believe that this would fit the saberon rather well, because they are rather savage!

Alright so, the Shadowclaw Tribe worship someone named O’Hama, in the Taagra tongue (Khajiit Language) this means nature, and she is the mother of all. Now, I’m not super sure how this would fit into WoW, and if we go with the war against the Botani route, then it’s more likely that they’d view the Botani as allies… Unless the saberon believe that the Botani, disrupt the balance, and dishonor nature with their practices. SOOO let’s go another route, what if they learn of some feline god, like Ashmane, or Siveralla (I butchered that spelling didn’t I? ) So they start worshipping them, OR we learn that they have worshipped them for a very long time. Either of these paths, I’d be happy with, or something more creative if Blizzard can do it or maybe a combination of both O_O

Moving on, I mentioned honor… We have a very, twisted(?) sense of honor, one that I think would fit the saberon QUITE well. Look at it this way, to us, eating our fallen brethren, or even enemies, any humanoid. This is usually done when a member of the tribe fights and kills an enemy, who they viewed as honorable, or worthy of their respect, so to show this they’ll say a prayer for their soul, and then eat the body. And depending on who it may be, they may even celebrate the person’s life… (however we had to retcon this from the guild since it made some people uncomfortable to rp out) However if someone is viewed as dishonorable, then they’d simply be left to rot in the sun, their souls trapped in the body. However if the person is viewed as evil, then they’d be tortured, and then left to die and rot… I’m not sure if Blizzard would be too keen on doing something like this for the saberon’s culture, since it is rather brutal, BUT I still think that if Blizzard decided to make Saberon appear as more, reasonable, and noble in some way, then Blizzard could yeet something like this at us, to show that they are still very much, the savage cat people we know and love… But yeah if the saberon are anything like this, THEY AIN’T BEING ALLIANCE! sadly

Forgot to add this: There are also things where they believe that there is honor in stealing from someone without getting caught, but dishonorable if you steal from friends, or close allies. unless they insult your honor, then they have it coming

@Rogmarr-kelthuzad

Saberon and Botani rivalry would be pretty interesting.

YES, I agree, and the idea of how both races would join their respective factions works pretty well too!

[Lore-herod]

No stopping for the cat people.