Once dracthyr is available to everybody what unique cc does Evoker bring? It seems really obvious to me that the racial spells were factored into our kit. Now everybody gets them, so are we compensated? Or does everybody keep their unique class kit, get Dracthyr on top of that and evokers are left to rot?
What about that one sleepwalk spell? Can’t remember the name of it.
It seems really weird to make a dramatic post like this without so much as looking at a talent tree or knowing/playing the class even a little bit.
That said, it’s already doubtful non-evokers will share the same cd on tailswipe and wing buffet. No one knows what they’ll do yet, but the most likely result (based on comments from blizzard) is that the racials will be a much longer cd for other classes.
In addition to that, evokers have sleepwalk, landslide, deep breath aoe stun, upheaval and seismic slam (for Aug), and oppressing roar to increase all cc on targets (and overawe for AOE soothe on roar).
“We” will be just fine.
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Way to be condescending! I’ve mained Evoker all expansion.
Sleep walk has next to no use in dungeons. Typically I never take it.
Landslide is a root. Like ok…
Upheaval is Aug specific which I rarely play, but fair enough I guess.
Yes we have deep breath stun, the only one that you mentioned that helps dungeons. One aoe stun. With no single target stops, no further aoe stops.
Like I said, evokers were built around the Dracthyr racials being part of their kit. They got less class cc because their race has two aoe stops.
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just another victim of blizzards poor planning for classes. this and the fact they have 50% less range while everyone seems to be above 40yds now feels like they had no long term plan for this class and this isnt counting aug
You’ve mained it all expansion and need to ask a forum what abilities a class you’ve played for two plus years has?
Sleep walk is incredible in dungeons under the right circumstances/dungeon/comp. Interrupt, pull a caster out in Narnia towards the pack, stop a channel from a melee add, etc. It was also our only way of dealing with incorp.
Just because you decided it’s bad doesn’t mean it is.
Nothing you just said stops it from being a “unique to evoker cc”, which is what you asked for.
It’s also an AOE 4 second stun for augs that take seismic slam, which is more doable with the talent tree now.
They don’t get less cc just because other classes are gaining access to the race. And as previously stated, it will be much better for evokers than non-evokers.
the whole every class can be a dracthyr now is just a terrible idea.
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I was hoping somebody had news I didn’t catch about it, not somebody showing up being a condescending prick about it. Yes I knew what spells I currently have access to. Most of the ones you listed have super niche to no uses in pve content. All evoker specs have access to one aoe stun and that’s it for serious PvE content.
Incorp isn’t an affix anymore and nobody running keys was spending the time to dream walk adds around. You can make up scenarios but that doesn’t mean people were doing it. Calling it incredible is laughable.
Just because you call it incredible doesn’t mean it is.
I already said fair enough on the augvoker one, it’s a spec I rarely play because it’s dull. So augvoker has two, it’s a small part of the reason they are super meta required for high keys.
As to the last point. My point is that the two spells are evoker spells. They were designed with them in mind. They were balanced around having them. You don’t think mages would complain if blast wave and dragons breath were given to anybody with just a cd difference? I’d bet everything they would but I Can’t even discuss it without people like you showing up to defend Evokers getting worse relative to other classes.
And lastly yes, Evoker aren’t changing. Everybody else is getting better. Making evokers worse in comparison. That’s not the argument you think it is.
The two spells are dracthyr spells. Just because they were mutually exclusive for an expansion doesn’t change the facts.
Guess you don’t watch any high level evokers stream?
This is a Red Herring and it doesn’t even apply to the conversation lol. Dracthyr was created with the expectation of being rolled out to other classes. Mage was not created with the expectation of their class abilities being redistributed, lmao.
You can discuss anything you want; it doesn’t obligate the entire forum to console you and agree with you. Adults are allowed to disagree with each other without it resulting in a temper tantrum–it’s called discourse.
Like it or not, I answered the question you asked. If the question wasn’t “Unique to Evoker CC?” and was actually “Come in here and cry about other classes opening up to Dracthyr!” then I would have known what to expect from your post and could have answered differently/avoided this meltdown entirely.
They don’t get worse relative to other classes if other classes have a much longer CD on the racial. If dracthyr releases for other classes and they have access to a 45 second tailswipe, I’ll be right there with you complaining. Until that’s the case, you’re just being dramatic about hypotheticals.
No one is saying “take that evoker because of swipe and buffet” and they won’t start saying it now. Other classes getting access to more CC is an overall benefit to the game and gives more value to classes like warrior that had less to offer.
I’m sorry that you feel less special, but you didn’t lose value over this.
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You aren’t even engaging with my points now just being a weird forum troll. All the talk about feeling special was strange.
So your opinion is that giving currently Evoker only cc spells to all classes with no downside to those classes will have no effect on the balance of cc across classes?
Wording it to suit your argument doesn’t make you correct.
They are Dracthyr spells. Show me a screenshot of them under the evoker tab of your spellbook and not the general tab and I’ll concede. Evoker is dracthyr-only; that doesn’t mean Dracthyr racials are evoker-only once the race opens up.
They also already stated they are deciding how to balance it so that they are still much stronger for evokers (and not too strong on other classes) so again, you’re trying to create a situation that doesn’t exist.
I said “currently Evoker only spells”. It has nothing to do with where it is in the spell book lol. Things have a balance to them right now with evokers being the only ones to access those spells. Soon everybody gets those spells. And it is your opinion that will not change the balance at all?
That is correct, given that they’ll likely be 2+ minute CDs, and more likely 2.5-3 minute.
If no one was taking evoker in groups because of the racials in DF, they aren’t so powerful that we lose value because other classes will be able to access lesser versions of them.
Giving a class like warrior access to them will only make groups with them more smooth, they won’t make them replace evoker.
There is literally no hypothetical situation where you can reasonably claim that our value will go down because other classes will have slightly more cc than they do now.
No one in a realistic key is going to say “should we take the evoker or the Dracthyr mage”? “Oh man we need AI AND swipe and buffet, take the Dracthyr mage”! The factors that were driving group comp had zero to do with our racials.
What WILL happen is that your groups will have more overall non-stun-DR cc, which can only serve to make the key go more smoothly. Everyone wins.
Well there we go.
If every class in the game gains two more aoe cc and evokers gain nothing they move down in strength relative to others. Pretty simple.
Sure content is smoother and easier, but not due to the evoker it’s due to up to 4 more people having two more aoe cc to toss into the mix.
It’s weird you say that nobody would care about a Dracthyr mage and then turn around and say the game will be smoother with more Dracthyr around. Hmmmmm lol.
You’re so locked in on trying to be right that you’re not even reading or comprehending.
There’s a huge difference between someone having a little extra cc and someone being taken or viewed as “stronger” strictly because of their racials.
If you don’t understand the difference here, you’re absolutely incapable of an actual conversation and 100% a waste of my time.
Stay mad, you’ve wasted enough of my time.
The whole things been a waste of your time. You are chatting with a stranger online, brother. The value you get out of this interaction has always been up to you alone.
You are now arguing that it won’t be effected that much. That it’s not enough to move the needle on whether or not they are stronger in the player bases opinion. To which I disagree. Even you said content will be easier. I agree with you and I’m sure many others will. Which will move that needle.
Before you said it wouldnt be effected at all. So at least we reached some consensus.
I’ve been on the internet a long time. When you get accused of being mad you know the other person is pissed. Sorry to have upset you so much. Hope you have a blessed day.
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Welcome to the Evoker forum, he’s the resident “that guy” for the Evoker class forums. I will give him credit though he’s a lot more tame for being a “that guy” than I have seen in other class forums over the last 2 decades so he’s got that going for him.
He butts heads with literally everyone on this forum over something or another at some point.
I claim that I think Pyre is too small he writes 4 paragraphs explaining why my opinion is wrong and if my opinion isn’t wrong I am just bad.
Anyone that suggests 25 yards is too short of a range he makes sure to post his college thesis on why they are bad and wrong.
You said you didn’t think Evoker CC was that amazing and now you get the 4 paragraph treatment for why your opinion is wrong and/or why you are bad because of it.
Just take a solid 20 minutes to browse the Evoker class forum and it just keeps happening over and over.
I would say his rate for posting elitist better-than-thou condescending comments is about 80% where 20% of what he posts is useful, valuable, helpful, and insightful. Thing is he does know the class well and is a good player, so his energy could be channeled into being a good representative for the class, but he just can’t not be right, prove he’s right, prove you wrong, prove everyone else wrong, explain why you me and everyone else who thinks changing the class even the smallest amount is bad.
inb4 he chops up this post and comments on each part bit-by-bit explaining (with hilarious irony) why am I wrong.
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All internet spaces have their contrarians. They usually disagree with everybody to make themselves feel superior or to troll. Not my first rodeo. I figure when I got the insults and “your mad” comments it was over.
If they didn’t want to spend that energy having a better impact on the community they could at least spend that energy making more coherent arguments. To claim everything will be easier and smoother with more dracthyr around but also it’s such a small difference that nobody will care was interesting.
I’m just disappointed that this became what the thread was about. I do genuinely believe that when blizzard developed evokers they wanted them to have cool abilities that used their tails, which was placed in the racial area because that made the most sense. But then they didn’t give them very many other cc options to make sure they weren’t over kitted. And now that everybody is getting Dracthyr they are doing a very lazy and likely inadequate cd adjustment. (Keep in mind we lose a talent point to get that currently because these abilities are core to Evoker identity). These things change when the community talks them over but we had a sh*t slinging contrarian come in to derail the convo.
I really like evokers and want more than Aug to be something that anybody cares about. Especially as a dev main.
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I didn’t realize how fun Dev was until I played it, just happened to be really strong in s4 so that was a bonus. It grew on me really quickly. I think Dev is going to be great in raids and M+ but definitely not the best. Can’t let rogue/mage/warrior not be #1 for too long, they get REAL MAD when they aren’t.
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Dev is my favorite spec in the game! Wish it had a tad more complexity but even as it is now it’s awesome. But as a mythic raider it’s hard to justify. No other ranged has 25 yard range. Even pres and Aug. so I have to ask for stack points to be moved just so I can play a fun spec. I’m not the best raider, 8/9 (mostly as pres since a healer quit) mythic last tier but I’d like to think I have enough experience with the spec to say 25 yard range is a huge hurdle to overcome.
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