Unholy is basically ready

Don’t waste your time bro, these people literally don’t want to understand. They can only classify things by extremes, that’s just how their brain works. Black or white and nothing else.

If you bring up relevant counterpoints, like devourer DH still being capable of auto attacks cause they wield glaives despite being a “ranged” spec, they’ll twist the argument with some irrational logic that disregards the initial point.

By their own logic, devourer DH is a melee spec cause it can weave auto attacks in between casts, but they’ll never admit that cause “intellect is for casting and strength is for melee”, eventhough ret is basically a caster at this point with strength and somehow everyone has forgotten that casters can also swing their weapons.

Their entire argument centers around festering strike being a melee requirement and they bolster it with auto attacks. The issue is they disregard that the rest of the toolkit is ranged for a reason they think is “just flavor”.

They claim we are pulling the class towards a fantasy that doesn’t align with its identity, but the identity they themself adhere to is that of a knight not a necromancer.

They don’t even know what a necromancer is, in their heads necro is a warlock. Whereas in all lores across games and fantasy, necromancy is an archetype, a theme, one that isn’t role based. Just like how the light and being holy is not caster based and is used by paladins and priests.

Then they’ll fixate on paladin and priest to argue melee vs ranged, doing exactly the same circular logic they’re expectedly stuck in.

You can’t beat stupid, the more you argue the more they’ll beat you with experience… and there are a lot more of these people on these forums who flock together as a group.

Save yourself from the mental anguish of trying to convince people who simply do not have the capacity to do so.

As has been repeatedly said: It is not about whether or not a class has melee strikes. It is all about positioning. I know you are really struggling with this concept. Let’s go really simple.

  • Unholy always wants to be in melee. So, Unholy is a melee spec.
  • Devourer DH (assuming you take melee talents) sometimes wants to be in melee, and sometimes away from melee. Devourer (with melee talents) is a hybrid.

That is not a difficult concept, pretty sure a 3 year old could get it. So, I can only conclude that you “literally don’t want to understand.”

No, we are saying you are objectively wrong about Unholy’s functionality.

I don’t think you know what a necromancer is in WoW. Because there are specific necromancers. They have been in Warcraft since WC3, where there was a scourge unit called a Necromancer (incidentally a separate unit from the Death Knight). There have been lots of npcs over the years in WoW labelled Necromancer. All of them shared some basics. And they were very clearly casters more in line with Mages or Warlocks. Warcraft set a pattern. You are just trying to redefine it differently than the game does.

This is a perfect example of someone who doesn’t read. Or shall we say, 'doesn’t want to understand.’ Functionally, the gameplay loop that a Necromancer class would fulfill is far too similar to the gameplay look a Warlock already brings. Blizzard has stated that new classes have to have new/different gameplay to be added to the game. Warlocks are not necromancers. But their gameplay would be basically the same. So, there is no real point in adding a Necromancer class to basically play the same as Warlocks, but with undead.

So, while you are ranting about how you think people are too stupid to listen to you, are to set in what they want, lack capacity, etc., maybe take a minute to look in the mirror at what you are doing.

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You give me Unholy DK as a unique ranged necromancer character, I am switching to it as my main so fast.

Demo warlock is over there.

Sorry, I like the undead theme more.

Personally I’m more frustrated with the disingenuous arguments presented. I said that I WANT dk to remain a melee class with some ranged abilities, and instead of people accepting that is my want, they try and argue that I am mistaken with what I want, and that blizzards “true intentions” are making it a ranged class. There has also been the argument that if I don’t want it to be a ranged class then every ability should be changed to melee range, despite DKs having ranged attacks since creation. It’s all just gaslighting non-sense and black or white thinking.

Unholy is a melee class with some ranged abilities, if you want to change it into something else than the burden of proof for WHY it should be changed rests on you, as you are trying to remove something someone else wants to play in favor of something you want to play.

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Well Unholy’s a melee spec, so too bad.

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Well survival went from ranged to melee. Who’s to say unholy can’t go from melee to range? Lmao.

Looks over at the reaction to that change

Sure thing. :+1:

The Survival change was because at the time there was a pretty heavy overlap between the specs. BM and Marks got significant changes to make them unique. And Survival wasn’t really adding anything. It really just looked like something in between, but not anything unique or distinct. Blizzard wanted all three specs to feel unique and different to play. Moving Survival to melee was their solution to that problem.

Those are not issues DKs have. Unholy and Frost are very distinct and unique playstyles. There is no need to try and make them unique from each other, they already are. There really just isn’t any reason to make Unholy ranged. It would be a lot of work to take away a unique and distinct playstyle.

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wasnt hated or liked, was fairly middle of the field, people were more upset that Survival lost Black arrow play style and went into a Melee aspect, but over all people were extremely welcoming of the changes for Survival and the Druid Feral split into Guardian, The two major Class changes done to date.

As a matter of a fact, i believe Guardian Druid is one of the better specs of Druid these days in the eyes of the community, its goal is clear, its damage is final… Judge Judy.

This is disingenuous, there have been other threads brought up about adding a fourth spec to DK to achieve a pure necromancer and those threads tend to die off without much discourse because people don’t really mind if you add something new. This thread is not about adding something new, it is about deleting something and replacing it with something different, therefore it is only natural that the people who enjoy playing what you are deleting would be up in arms. The thread is called “Unholy is basically Ready” and not “Lets ADD a fully ranged necromancer spec to DK”.

The reason people are resistant is because we don’t want you to delete current Unholy.

Yes he did. The Dead Scar is literally evidence that Arthas and his army blighted the land.

Because he was tasked with creating an undead army. But if you want to bring the RTS into it, necromancers used Raise Dead, it was much more frequent and much more. Unholy is taking the route of the necromancer from the RTS, not Arthas.

So? Its a melee spec, get over it.

And if Bloods abilities were changed to range it would do the same thing… the fact that you are saying that if things are changed then you are right means that you are wrong.

Not to mention you didnt really read the notes. You arent going to be popping ghouls all the time, Festering Strike is 2-3 ghouls not 3-4 anymore, you also dont want to be at range due to your ghouls having a travel time so that puts you in melee, auto attacks also put you in melee.

I dont care about Survival.

No it wasnt. And it was never considered a melee spec.

No they werent.

To do damage. Meta was a DPS cooldown. The reason why you wanted to be close to the boss was for Immolation Aura. Not to mention tanking the Prince was done by a warlock because they could generate threat at range with Searing Pain, and they could pick up the orbs a lot easier as well. It wasnt be cause of Meta. The 2 bosses you talked about tanking had nothing to do with meta.

I bolded the key part. There were Scourge units that had diseases (Aboms and Meat Wagons). And the buildings blighted the land around them. The Death Knights did not.

So did Death Knights.

Death Knights raised minions and charged in with them, meleeing and using death coil on the front line. Necromancers stayed in the back summoning and sending undead, not directly engaging.

Unholy summons minions and charges into melee with the. So, like the Death Knights. Not like Necromancers.

Hey, look. We agree on something. I knew it had to happen. :wink:

You missed part of it… ARTHAS. He caused it too.

Duh… wait to leave out “more often than death knights”.

So? It was every 3 minutes. If you want to use the RTS as grounds for this type of playstyle, then it didnt exist and the Wrath Unholy gameplay was more in line with the RTS than whatever this abomination of a poor mans Demo lock is. This is literally making it more like a necromancer. Necromancers raised the dead every 2 seconds so long as there were corpses and they had the mana to do it. This gameplay is more like the Necromancers not Death Knights. Even Arthas didnt summon ghouls this much during his Lich King fight.

I don’t have the alpha but San’layn feels neutered somehow? The second part of Infliction of Sorrow just feels so mid now. That last Scourge Strike is not going to hit much harder than usual…

He was the general of the Army. But not who was actively blighting the land. And he wasn’t even the one overall ruling the Scourge at that point. That was before he became the Lich King and was still taking commands from Ner’zhul.

If you had been paying attention, it was mostly in response to the claim Arthas was using diseases in his EK campaign, which he was not. A false claim was made about what Arthas did, I used actual history to disprove it.

It really isn’t. There are necromancer npcs in WoW that are VERY, VERY different than Midnight’s Unholy. Just raising dead is not enough to make a DK a necromancer in WoW.

Yeah. He was.

That was Ner’zhul.

I was.

Are you really going to argue this point as well?

Oh now going to WoW since the RTS wasnt in your favor? This design is going towards a necromancer. Its not trying to emulate Arthas.

I see we are to the point of you just claiming things without evidence.

Incorrect. I used both. Clearly you have not been paying attention. It is not one or the other.

RTS DKs are very different than the Necromancers.
AND
WoW DKs are very different than the Necromancers.