Maybe not. But I think it is at a point where calling the night elves a matriarchy is false/inaccurate.
And I think more importantly, I doubt we will see any future stories about inequalities. And any such inequalities will be treated as “wrong”. Both genders will likely be treated fairly evenly in any and all stories that feature a playable race.
Nope, that is something we both agree on. A big part of what I’ve been arguing against is this idea that the night elves “are not really a matriarchy” because (insert really any reason), regardless of the fact they absolutely are a matriarchy. That people are trying to disqualify them as a matriarchy based on the fact Malfurion is a respected member of society and the leader of the Cenarion Circle has been the bulk of the arguments I’ve been dealing with.
Malfurion can be respected, even loved, even listened to.
Night elves are still a matriarchy.
Night Elves were designed as a Matriarchy in WC 3, but they are no longer.
The Devs already made it clear when they stated the reference to a matriarchy was a “call back” to a time long past. A different game, even - a call back to WC 3.
In this game, the current lore - World of Warcraft - that matriarchy is gone. Which is why the Devs used the term “call back”
You can ignore the Devs, and swim in your head canon. However, you should not expect the universe to accept your fanon as canon.
Well again, it depends on definition. The definition is flexible, but at it’s most basic, the fact that more women are in positions of power and largely make up the Sentinels and Priestesses—and the whole society worships a goddess—makes it matriarchal. If that’s not your idea of a matriarchy so be it, but it’s not inaccurate to refer to it as such.
You know, you guys seem to have an odd investment in whether it is or is not the case. Is it just my intution?
I wouldn’t say we have enough information to make that call. We have what, one known man and four (maybe) known women for this ritual? And you’re trying to apply what is typically a death ritual of sorts to Elune’s favor as a whole across a bunch of people.
Malfurion loved and respected? Not in this dojo. 
I hardly think they made it clear in those comments, lol. Making it clear would have been ‘they aren’t a Matriarchy anymore’. But you’re trying to read intentionality.
Once more; Terran Gregory, a single dev, was talking about an artistic call back to a past game. He did not state the matriarchy is abolished, no more than he stated the Sentinels are a thing of the past (which he also stated was a part of that “call back”).
I’m not. You’re willfully misinterpreting one dev’s statement about his artistic choice to showcase the scene of Tyrande standing in front of Malfurion as a call back to that WCIII image.
You’re the one out here trying to make his head canon into canon for reasons.
And the opposite would be just as easy and they could say “the night elves are still a matriachy” but they haven’t. If anything, I expect absolute Blizzard silence on this for no other reason than because either answer will rile up people and both answers has little to no effect on either actual gameplay or lore.
I don’t know if the gender restriction on the Priesthood of the Moon was originally due to Elune’s will or due to night elf cultural phenomena. Assuming that’s not established lore, we simply cannot say one way or the other whether Elune cares about the gender of her followers.
This is the Story Forum.
We have an odd investment in everything.
Right, but the argument is about overturning the past rather than reaffirm what was already the case. These are not the same.
Yeah, probably. It isn’t worth it either way.
Yeah, I agree we can’t say for sure. Only that it is a Night Elf belief.
Not sure that is the case that it should not be treated the same. I mean, we can already see Stormwind is an egalitarian society. Even though there was no sweeping lore narrative stating otherwise. Heck, unlike say the orcs, they didn’t even get flavor text stating that women are now treated equal. We can just assume it from the fact we can see women in any and all field. Heck, their navy admiral is a woman.
A disagreement on interpretation, is all.
For example - the “Time Skip Blue Response”
In that thread, before the Blue replied - I found the Time Skip dubious. Anyone can read the thread - I could not settle on an opinion, because Blizzard was not clear. I expected half the NPCs to mention a time skip, and the other half to deny a time skip.
But then, Blizzard made itself clear. There would be a time skip.
My point - I am open to discussions on interpretations, and I am willing to concede where Blizzard is clear.
As far as I see it, Blizzard refers to kaldorei matriarchy as a “call back”
If a Blue Post followed this post, and stated kaldorei were - or were not - a matriarchy, I think we would all welcome that.
I wouldn’t put something changing as the same requirement for thinking it is the same. It’d require constant reaffirmation for that which doesn’t seem necessary.
I’m actually not sure we can conclude that for sure, no. But by that merit, there’s been less direct commentary on them being a patriarchy beyond that they’re somewhat based on fantasy medieval society with kings and such.
That’s a nifty double standard, Curse. Suddenly you’re open to discussion, but just minutes ago, anything that wasn’t your “interpretation” was ignoring the devs, fanon and head canon.
But now, it’s suddenly “unclear” and “open to interpretation,” once it’s pointed out that it was never “devs” making the statement, and only a single dev talking about artistic choices which, if interpreted as a canonical statement about the current status quo, would also have to abolish a standing institution we know hasn’t been abolished.
It’s fine tho. I get it.
I have been. I did not dismiss anyone as “not fan enough” or “not kaldorei enough.”
I am fine with discussions. I see disagreement, and can acknowledge Blizzard has poor follow through. I said that a few hundred posts ago
Blizzard makes lore pronouncements, and does not follow through with in game content.
Neither have I. I have been called out for supporting sexism by stating that night elven society is still matriarchal, but I certainly never said anyone couldn’t be a fan of night elves for disagreeing with me.
Then the heart of the disagreement must be this; when Terran Gregory was talking about making a callback to the iconography and imagery of the night elves from WCIII, listing both the matriarchy and the sentinels as said imagery, was he making a lore statement that those two things are now abolished?
Because it’s both. He didn’t say “a call back to that time when the night elves had a matriarchy in WCIII”. He did say (full quote following again, because why not?):
“And, And, this is a call back to that classic WCIII image, the male night elf, female night elf (hands positions as male behind female), with the druid here (motions behind himself), the female in front, because that’s the culture from WCIII… It’s the Sentinels, the matriarchal society, and so she’s at the fore front…” I clipped out the power level discussion right after.
So do we also assume that the Sentinels are gone forever with the matriarchy?
Or can we all just agree that all Terran talked about was artistic choices, calling back to a better game than BfA?
I can state that different people have different interpretations on what the Devs have said.
My problem is that people try to gate keep opinions. I would have stayed out of this fray, but Zerde was being attacked for being alone. Not for his opinion - for being alone.
He was not alone. Many shared his view. He just happened to be the only one who cared to post at the time.
Well, since you’ve included me into that group, I will assure you that I attacked Zerde for his opinion well before anything else.
My hyperbolic statements about only one person hearing or reading the art director talking about art choices and artistic imagery and saying that suddenly new lore has been made were, of course, hyperbolic. I fully well know many people could hear that statement and absolutely decide that this means there no longer is, and in fact never was, a matriarchal government in night elven society. I’m well acquainted with that kind of logic here.
Now being called sexist for knowing what the lore states and what “matriarchy” means, that is pretty damn new.
But glad to know you care about defending others when they’re rudely being attacked for having different views.
To be fair I never argued it was never a Matriarchy only that the society has moved beyond that. It has been a fluid form of society that has shifted between Matriarchy and patriarchy and has now found a middle ground.
There was never a set thing for Blizzard to transition the NEs to.
Like I said 300 replies ago the intricacies of how NEs govern themselves are ambiguous, there is no concrete before and after.
People are reaching with what little information is available.