See, I’m a big one for show vs tell too. And I’ve played through the game. I’ve been through Teldrassil, Darkshore, Ashenvale, Feralas, Felwood, and the rest of Kalimdor. And what the game showed me isn’t a night elf society where druids are in charge. It shows me where ever you see a strong night elf presence, you see female sentinels, female priestesses, female local leaders. You’ll have exceptions like Moonglade and the other druid strongholds, but the game explains the difference there well; it’s a neutral place for druids, both Alliance and Horde. Everywhere else, the majority of places with strong night elf presence? It shows women in charge. It’s showing a matriarchal society.
All I have to contradict this are you and others telling us all that really, secretly, the druids are just as in charge throughout night elven society because a game manual said a line that can be interpreted that way, the same game manual that also says the night elves are a matriarchy. And of course an art director’s words twisted out of the context they were made in that people say must mean this thing that they were clearly never meant to be taken.
You’re telling me this is the case, that night elves do not live in a matriarchy, but Blizzard is showing that they do. They show it across the board.
But it’s not. You don’t have cowed males under the lash of female dominatrix. What you’ve done is what you always do… Cherry pick things that fit your narratie while ignoring the context that denies it.
You really need to review what makes a Genderarchy.
Because the “Amazonian dominitrix-esque society” trope is typically written by male writers for male readers, usually as titilation.
And I used that phrase to immitate something Drahl had accused me of doing earlier; calling the night elves a matriarchy because “(I’m) making them into a male fiction Amazonian stereotype”, or something along those words.
I dunno…I just dislike the whole vibe this thread is givng about how women can’t do anything right unless a Man is running the show and telling them what to do.
It’s a super weird and creepy. I thought we would be over this sort of attitude in 2022
Let’s be real here. Most fantasy at its inception that it was being developed was by men for men. Orcs? Male writers for Male readers as titillation.
Fantasy written by women for women were rare and in between besides those romance novels but slowly after 40 years of experimentation it has become more inclusive but lets be real here the majority of consumers of this genre are still men.
What Drahl is doing is using the “Male fantasy” in a negative connotation when it suits her so she can win her dumb internet argument.
There is nothing wrong with male fantasy or female fantasy, The Amazonian Dominitrix-esque society is just a mirror image of another trope. You got fantasy stories like the ones for Dark Elves in dnd where Matriarchy is as you described or we got something like Horizon Zero Dawn where the Matriarchy is more benevolent.
I get so tired of people that come into a genre of fantasy with some chip on their shoulder where every story element is reduced down to some political statement aimed at eliminating the trope.
Its why a certain Blood Elf warlock and I will never ever see eye to eye.
So first off, agreed across the board. Let’s get that out of the way.
Uhg. I had a long post I tried typing out here, but I don’t like where that debate will inevitably lead, or how some other people (not you) will inevitably respond.
Suffice to say, it’s a reaction/backlash/over-reaction to the general publishing market pushing books and games that are “too ethnic” to the side in favor of more Tolkien-esque works. Just because something is more “vanilla” doesn’t mean it must be bad. At the same time, there should be more space made for other flavors of fantasy.
But you’re not creating that space by attacking “vanilla”. You’re just filling any available space with bad faith arguments from across the spectrum.
Looks like we are very much in agreement.
I just chalk it to people who have no business participating in this genre because they are not interested in building something. They are interested in tearing things down because they aren’t a fan.
Its people who complain about why Red Sonja is fighting in a shiny bikini while ignoring Conan is fighting in a loin cloth.
Yes if this was reality they would both be wearing multiple shirts if they could not find some leather to strap together… Look if you (whomever) likes fantasy and wants to participate, stop complaining about male gazes and stuff. start adding female gazes and stuff. If that is the problem you (again whomever) has issue with.
Have a fantasy with hot men in loin clothes with perfectly manscaped goodness fighting for the lady with the personality of a bucket. Go wild. Have fun.
That Red Sonja is essentially a creation of Marvel Comics.
The original made by Robert Howard was a sword and pistol packing badass Polish-Ukrainian character who plays a key role in Howard’s novel “Sword of the Vulture”.
But I was talking about the conan adaptation in that context. A world where everyone is running around in loin clothes and weapons.
Sonja was given shiny loin clothes.
You don’t read much written by women, do you? There are differences because the experience of being a woman in Western society still has a lot to do with gender. Since those are personal differences and writing is a personal experience, it’s a shaping influence on a writer’s output.
Mary Shelly stands among the greats with her Modern Prometheus. What ever an author’s background, there is sometimes a target audience. The themes would relate to that.
I am not Harry Potter fan, but I understand Rowling was not obvious about Dumbledore being gay in the novels. She said it after her Potter series was ended.
Some people think she just added it later for drama - others believe her when she says it was part of the character all along, and just not part of the conversation in the current story.
If she made a wizard gay in a children’s book and decided to keep it as an untold motivation because of some marketing reason, until the books were sold - well, that is writing for a target audience.
The irony is people would burn her books for having witchcraft, anyway. And now her politics on Trans issues has more people angry.
Lol if you knew how wrong that is.
The difference between those women and you is that you are tearing things down meanwhile they are building things up.
Don’t try to ride their coat tails to justify behaviors and issues seen here.
Honestly, the whole reason she’s J.K. Rowling instead of… Her actual first name, which eludes me, is marketing from her publisher.
Which isn’t uncommon in fantasy/sf stretching back to the 50s (and probably further, but eh). Or using a fairly gender neutral name like Robin. Or straight up writing under a male pseudonym. You don’t sell a book entirely by the cover, but it helps.
And yes, the name cross dressing (or at least name androgynous dressing) makes the whole thing about her views funnier and more stupid.
I am the generation to be way too into Harry Potter, but I was inoculated by Jane Yolen and Diane Duane (and a lil bit of Hellboy), so I kind of missed that bug.
Anyway, my original point here was that authors can and do write outside their personal experience competently enough to “pass”. And, I’d argue, should. Both for themselves and their audiences.