It is strange to me that people think a 10,000 year old society changed so much in 40 years. The writing could be that bad, but I’d lean against it as a reaction without pretty overwhelming evidence.
Male leaders have always existed in some capacity, that doesn’t make it not matriarchal.
The only major changes are that traditional roles mixing more. Which by itself clearly isn’t a removal, we have a lot of mixed gender roles in the real world, we still have many patriarchal societies.
And the Dev comments don’t actually seem all that relevant given their lack of explicitly calling anything out.
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I’m stating “it exists”. I’ve never made a value judgment about whether or not it’s good. That, like many things, exists purely in your head.
Zarde, you really need to get out of the habit of assuming people say things they never said.
I’m both flattered and creeped out knowing some people have their own head-canon about me.
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points at the Shadowlands The Shadowlands are even older then the night elves and yet we players have probably caused the greatest amount of change in less then 2 years.
Azeroth and its people had to change because so many things happened in that 40 year time to force change. I’d also point out real life history has undergone a dramatic change in 40 years.
Tell me what exactly makes it a matriarchy at this point? The leaders of the night elves are both men and women. Men are not subservient to women and from the looks of it all the old institutions that made the night elf a matriarchy in the first place, like the sentinels and priesthood, have changed dramatically.
So I am not much of a fan of Undead Night Elf aesthetics but the one good thing about Shadowlands was the astral look for Tyrande.
I really hope they bring that for the players maybe a temporary buff glow for NE paladins? That would be really cool.
But then again like void elves… all that armor covers up the cool special effects. 
And what makes a patriarchy? Its broad term and requires full of nuance. It could be a hundred different things that make it up.
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I honestly feel that some of the terrible story choices over the last few years could be mitigated by rewarding cool customization effects. Like, just picture it:
“In this quest, you learn all about how Zovaal the Bland secretly orchestrated all of the events in the Warcraft universe… But completing it rewards player housing!”
Suddenly that pill becomes a lot less bitter when I’m swallowing it. I mean, it’s still bitter for sure. And I’ll absolutely be grumbling in impotent rage while happily decorating my Farstrider-esque hunting lodge.
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Zerde, real quick. I’ve read the entire discussion so far. Are you going to provide any new information? Otherwise I don’t see what you could say besides repeating yourself.
The Shadowlands is comprised of spirits, not flesh and blood people. I wouldn’t hold them to the same standard.
I’d point to real life history showing society typically doesn’t radically change.
Mostly women leaders with few men. We have had and still have that.
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Depends on the customization that is being offered… My problem with Undead NEs in the context of BFA is that they were basically enslaved dead victims.
The writers can try to bend themselves into a pretzel about how they were not thinking straight or whatever but it was still slavery. And the Undead NEs are no more than a reminder of that. Every NE with the undead skin was enslaved, killed their brothers and sisters by orders of the Horde and now… they are back.
That’s kind of like the Maghar Orcs having light forged orcs amongst them.
Gives an icky feeling.
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They still had their own society/teaching/practices. We upended a near immemorial traditions for the Kyrians. The same could be said of how the souls are judged.
Except we have, specifically in terms of gender roles/sexuality.
From Warcraft 3 manual:
Under the druids’ benevolent leadership, the night elves enjoyed an era of unprecedented peace and tranquility under the stars.-Warcraft 3
So it looks like when the druids were awake they had a heavy hand in the leadership department. and look at that, they are now permanently awake. So saying there are more women leader is false. There are as many high ranking male leaders/notable male leaders for the night elves.
Zerde, we can’t continue if you ignore my questions.
I already provided you Danuser’s interview. Like it or not, we will likely keep seeing a more egalitarian world for Azeroth where any gender divide is all but erased.
It’s the low-key sexism in statements like this that read as “the women only got to rule because the men were sleeping” that makes it very hard to believe this argument isn’t coming from a place of low-key sexism entirely.
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Or you decided to take the worse reading of said statement because of your own bias. I am not saying women wouldn’t have continue have a hand in leading. I am saying the male night elves(as mentioned in the Warcraft 3 manual) would have had a more active part. Equality is not a pie that you can run out of.
That’s not my question, Zerde. You posted that before I said anything. So you’re still ignoring what I asked.
Are you going to provide any new information you haven’t already posted in the thread?
But the manual isn’t saying that men would have had a more active role in leading. It’s saying the druids helped lead. You’re making the leap to interpret it as saying the matriarchy is only a thing because the druids slept. That is purely your conclusion.
Hense why the conclusion you decided must be true sounds low-key sexist. Because you had to put the effort in to make it a reality.
Just one that should end this, from the world of warcraft manual:
Choose Your Gender
You can be a male or female character in World of Warcraft. Men and
women are equal in Azeroth, so the only differences between the two
genders are cosmetic
Oh Zarde…
That you think this is somehow a winning argument is just sad. WoW certainly does not portray the differences between the two genders as just “cosmetic”, and you know that.
This has become depressing.
Alysna is right. The low key sexism is really disturbing. I don’t think you realize it or you do and you’re just doubling down for the sake of it, but you’re suggesting the Kaldorei are only successful because the druids woke up and made a few decisions.
Completely ignoring the thousands of years that the women ruled just fine…kind of funny the kaldorei started having trouble soon as the men woke up and decided they knew better.
This is literally the case, there is no benefit for my toon to be either male or female.
That is literally what the manual said. I am not saying the female night elves couldn’t have succeeded/held out on their own, but it wouldn’t have been AS SUCCESSFUL without them.
You’re right of course.
The only way sexism can possibly be present in the game is through buffs and nerfs to your gameplay.
Zarde has solved sexism on Azeroth.
No, it means that any form of sexism, whether it be done by men or women, will likely end up being portrayed as wrong. Or more likely we will probably not see any more stories about discrimination, at least when it comes to gender or sexuality.