because they were invaded. They didn’t help the Night Elves, they just happened to be invaded at the same time…
I think Blizzard did a bad job at conveying an order of events. It doesn’t really make sense that the war in Ashenvale would have happened before the events of Tides of War, because the novel began with Jaina learning about the Horde’s attack and Northwatch, and the implications of War with the Horde.
I disagree strongly. The Alliance has not helped the Night Elves, but rather has served to domesticate them, pulling them away from their roots. People say the Night Elves Stagnated over the last 10,000 years, but I fail to see how generations of peace with abundant renewable resources is stagnate… It’s this gross misconception that progress is only achieved by the domination of nature and the advancement of technology… Which is not true at all, and I would actually say the Night Elves were and still are far more advanced than any other race, because they understand the value of living with nature, rather than dominating it.
The Alliance is an oppressive and imperialistic regime, acting more like Stormwind’s Empire than anything else, trying to further homogenize the other races to be more like humans, and to pursue human interests.
Even after The Chronicle, the sequence is awkward. Because you had that NPC in the Barrens saying the Alliance struck first out of Northwatch before the Cataclysm. And where the one Camp played into the timeline.
Look, I don’t want to keep going in circles, but here is my take. The Horde attacked Northwatch because they knew if they didn’t, Northwatch would attack them in retaliation for invading Ashenvale, and the horde didn’t want to leave their southern flank exposed. Therefore, I would argue that the Horde didn’t choose to have a two front war. Rather, the choice was forced upon them by the Alliance’s military presence in Kalimdor. That is my central thesis. The presence of Alliance forces in Kalimdor forced the Horde to make decisions they otherwise wouldn’t make, like fighting on two fronts. Maybe you don’t believe the Alliance would have helped us, if they weren’t attacked first. Suffice it to say, I think they would have, just as they did after the War of Thorns.
I want to make this clear. I understand why you don’t like the way Night elves have been portrayed in WoW. I agree. Our militarism has been toned down, our matriarchal-esque culture has been wiped away, and the only real racial identity we have left is druidism. I also agree that too often, Alliance storytelling has been human-centric, to the exclusion of other races, though i think Night Elves are better off in this regard than others. However, I think you are mistaken in blaming the Alliance for these problems.
I leveled a Night Elf, 1-120. I never once saw a human priest or inquisitor trying to force our people to abandon Elune, or druidism. I never once saw a human farming on our land (other then in Val’Sharah), or a dwarf cutting down one of our trees. I never saw the Alliance force us to abandon or culture, or to change our ways. We have been more domesticated, as you put it, but that is the fault of Blizzard and their writers, not of the in-game Alliance. Anduin has never forced a Night Elf to worship the Light. He has, to my knowledge, never even attempted to persuade a Night Elf to convert. I think your description of the Alliance as an imperialistic force is deeply unfair, at least with regards to the Night Elves. I leveled through Teldrassil, and Darkshore, and Ashenvale, and I saw an overwhelmingly Night Elf population practicing their traditions free from outside interference (other then the Horde invasion). Don’t blame the Alliance as an organization for Blizzard’s fixation on humans and orcs, or their desire to wipe away the most interesting parts of our culture.
Okay, but at this point we are crediting the humans for what they -would- do, not what they actually did. We can’t say the Humans opened another front with the Horde to help the Night Elves because they didn’t. They opened that front because they were attacked and at war. It is a front that would have been opened regardless if the Horde attacked Ashenvale or not. Let stop calling the Alliance saviors of the Night Elves, they aren’t…
You are not paying attention then, because that happened in Legion. We also see countless night Elves wear Stormwind colors… which people say “its the symbol of the Alliance.”
The Alliance aren’t our saviors. They are our allies. Allies are allies because they share mutual interests, and mutual enemies. The Alliance staked out a military position in Kalimdor to oppose the Horde, our mutual enemy. When the war began, the Horde was forced to fight on two fronts, against the Night Elves in the North and against the rest of the Alliance in the south. Therefore, the Horde was weaker on both fronts then they would have been if they needed to fight on only one front. Therefore, the actions of the Alliance weakened our mutual enemies, and in doing so, advanced our mutual interests. That is what allies do. Therefore, the Alliance have been good allies to the Night elves. They are not our saviors. We do not owe them any debt. We have pulled our own weight in this partnership. All I am saying, is that the partnership between the Night Elves and the rest of the Alliance has been mutually beneficial, and thus should continue.
Not really, because they didn’t do any of that with the Night Elves in mind. They did it to oppose their enemy, something they would have done regardless of their alliance with the Night Elves. You don’t credit people with deeds that serve their own interests, you credit people’s altruism. Something the Alliance had little for the Night Elves.
The Alliance is an imperialistic regime that the Night Elves should be no part of. The Alliance has only served to defang them.
You’re discussing if they’ve been good allies, not if they’re benevolent people. Not sure why altruism would play into that. If a cop stops a criminal because he’s getting paid, he’s still doing a good job. Whether or not I’m being helped out of the goodness of his heart.
I disagree. If a Cop only does his job for a paycheck, then he needs to find a new line of work.
Yeah, I am old school like that. I expect people to do the right thing regardless of their own agenda. Do things because it’s right, not because it serves you and your interests.
“B-but why isn’t Anduin helping us! Help us now!!!”
Anduin is aiding the Night Elves by weakening the Horde fleet, making it easier to take over Darkshore. Even Nathanos and Halford say the Alliance are winning on all fronts after Dazar’alor.
that is a naive standard to hold, because that simply isn’t how the world works.
mate, if that cop wasn’t being paid, he would not be working in that job. even cops work to be paid, they just so happen to be helping others in the process
if we stopped paying the cops, we would no longer have a police force, there would be no reason for them to stay because they need and want the money. they are there for the paycheck
The fact of the matter is the Alliance has helped then Night Elves at every turn the could. Stormwind even opened all of its inns and homes to allow the refugees a comfortable life, if they even could. Without Stormwind, the Night Elves would be wiped off the map right now.
Because Kul Tiras would give the Alliance the strongest fleet in the entire world. You know, which would give us an edge or at least let us match the Horde, since they were recruiting the Zandalari fleet.
they are paid because it would be illegal not to pay them for their work, and because nobody would sign up for a job that doesn’t pay, the only exception is interns who do it for the experience so they can get a job that pays.
I’m new to these forums, and from what I’ve seen, you seem like a bit of a troll, but I don’t know enough to say that for sure. Assuming these points were made in good faith:
The Alliance struck Lordaeron because it was the closest Horde target. We needed to hit back, and even the scales after Teldrassil. It is also much easier to fight on the same continent as Stormwind and Ironforge then it is to sail across the world to fight on Orgrimmar’s doorstep.
Kul Tiras will be invaluable to retaking Darkshore and Ashenvale. After 8.1, the Kul Tiran navy will be the undisputed mater of the seas, allowing us to supply and reinforce an invasion of Kalimdor.