Tyrande’s quest was NOT vengeance

Which is your way of characterizing it, a very politically charged way that intentionally ignored the circumstances of what you’re talking about that I feel we shouldn’t go into here as it has no real relevance to this thread.

Suffice to say, I disagree with how you viewed that.

In the meantime, I still find it a bit strange to accuse the lapsed-Catholic bordering on agnostic who believes that police departments should undergo regular control and effectiveness audits of IRL supporting a regime led by a war-pope who partially enforces laws with a Judge-Dredd style secret police.

Maybe you’ll see other connections that I don’t, however.

oh wow… okay then maybe me and Kyalin are not on the same side of irl politics, my bad…I retract my comment.

In the Finalboss interview on YouTube, from concept art to final production it takes them approximately 4-6 months to create a cinematic due to almost all assets pre-existing from the original BfA cinematic allowing them re-use.

That figure was touted in response in regards to how long Old Soldier took to create, which dates it as having started production 4-6 months prior to BfA launch as BfA launched 12 days after the cinematic aired. Maybe a month or two extra if you presume he meant finish and it took time for it to be shown.

Which means they would’ve been early production or mid-production if we give them another month or two when BfA beta went live and Lordaeron was playable, and the feedback started to come in.

Note I’m not arguing the feedback was overwhelming and warped the cutscene, but saying they would’ve been aware of it while working on the cutscene and later admitted they changed the in-game narrative in response to it.

Seeing the Night Elves in that cinematic I am glad the night Elves did not get those movie level animations. They looked frightening.
Something about white shiny eyes unsettles me.

They’re just an asset flip from Sylvanas, I think.

Well that settles it then. This was all Khadgar’s DMT trip.

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The police are being audited. The audit is carried out by a military man. A military man has power (probably in the form of special forces).
Right?

Given that the US only just recently completed a financial statement audit within the past couple of years, that the Department of Defense was the reason WHY they were unable to complete that audit for all of the previous years, and given that said audit failed because of said department, I’m not sure that I’d want military personnel doing the auditing.

This is off topic, however.

A breakaway Catholic, close to agnostics. The police must be audited. The form of government is a military leader.
There was no connection between the second and third sentences.

Hmm. Is it the same thing - “military leader” and “leader - the head of the military”?

the most abominable sin sylvanas made wasn’t to kill every citizen alive but to know they all will be send to hell to power her master, that’s above everything.

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yes but in all fairness Loyalists didn’t know that until Shadowlands.

My tummy hurts

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I think Elune wasnt protecting Sylvannas but Tyrande. Since if she consume her vengeance, she will die and she wont let her avatar die like that…right?

“Significantly crumpled” is more how I’d describe Cenarius after that encounter :sunglasses:

Warcraft is a story about hatred, strife, dominance. The quest for power, where nations and cultures vie for supremacy and influence, which is why I found Arthas story to be as good as it originally was. It was a kind of irony that in the eternal conflict for power and dominance, Arthas put the CROWN of dominance on his head.

It was the story of a man who had to emerge, born out of the turmoil and wars and strife of the eastern kingdoms, whose own instability and insecurity had to escalate.

But Sylvanas measures this irony, Sylvanas was not a product that had to happen - so to speak. This is a big difference between Arthas and Sylvanas. Arthas was fun, made fun, even while he was doing darkest deeds, you could always understand him and feel for him.

You could do that with Sylvanas for a while, but Teldrassil turned it around, all sympathy was lost with this event, because she is not Arthas, because she doesn’t have the history with a soul devouring weapon, because she is NOT a product of the eastern kingdoms and their history.

She is Arthas product, but Arthas was passe, every deed which she accomplishes now, will turn against innocent people, and thus she becomes from the victim to the perpetrator. And when she did the same as Arthas, only worse, she lost so much sympathy that at this point Sylvanas deserves to die, finally, and forever.

Now that said in advance, Blizzard has not just one writer but many. And each of these writers had different visions for Sylvanas. Danuser will not give up Sylvanas, I doubt she will really even face serious consequences for her actions, Redemption will happen, but one reminiscent of Grom, no character in all of WOW has ever had to endure a real Redemption, it’s hard, it’s incredibly harsh, and it’s almost unattainable, because for that to happen the other side would have to be willing to forgive, and that’s where we hit the problem.

The alliance is no longer willing to forgive as a playerbase, it’s against their dignity at this point, it feels forced and I can fully understand it.
If Blizzard chooses a way that Sylvanas really has to redeem herself, without a sacrifice in the form of die and be done with it…that lasts years and makes it clear to Sylvanas that everything she has done since she became undead is wrong…really EVERYTHING and that publicly over and over again…and tries to stand up for it and take responsibility, only then, and only then…would she truly experience redemption.

But her fans wouldn’t want that, because that’s demeaning to Sylvanas, which is the whole point of redemption. They don’t want their fan favorite to stand for years for one thing: “I was wrong, everything I did was wrong, and even though I can never make it right, I try to live my whole life now working and trying to find redemption in the end”.

It would humiliate Sylvanas in their eyes.

And now there is blizzard, trying to somehow still manage to draw a round circle with Tyrande, although it started as a square. It’s not about Tyrande, that’s the real cheek, it should and should have been about Tyrande, but it’s about Sylvanas, and the playerbase against and for her.

Tyrande is…not even second fiddle, she’s fourth, fifth fiddle…and actually absolutely irrelevant in blizzard’s eyes at this point.

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Tyrande’s story is one of compassion and forgiveness.
Consider the following hypothetical future exchange.

Sylvanas: Oh I can never be forgiven, kill me.

Tyrande:…No, the one I sought to slay is the Banshee Queen. Not the Ranger General in front of me. Now come, rise my…Sister…

Big hug.

Cough.
They don’t share the same religion. They did not fight together. We didn’t live together. Tyrande had never seen Sylvanas the Ranger. Why sisters?

Well, or at least “Yes, they won’t forgive … Sister.” Then Tyrande kills Sylvanas and leaves to the tragic music. Perhaps crying.

Not. This is also nonsense.

It is easy to misunderstand the concept of justice, but there is no way that killing Sylvanas could achieve justice. There is no way that killing one person could balance the scales tipped by Teldrassil, and that of course implies that Teldrassil could be observed in isolation.

Killing Sylvanas could only avenge those killed in the war of Thorns.

Justice is impossible in mass murder.

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Counter: There is no way killing Sylvanas is antithetical to justice. Killing Sylvanas is one step among the many steps needed to achieve justice.

No. Killing cannot be a step toward justice. It cannot balance anything. The concept of punishment is not the same as the concept of justice. Justice exists as an extension of many of the earliest civil codes. You killed my sheep, so you owe me a couple shekels, but I killed your ox so I owe you more shekels, because oxen are tools that are worth more than their material value. There is no concept of justice that says “you killed my sheep so I kill your sheep”. You cannot achieve justice that way.

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