Tyrande’s quest was NOT vengeance

Lore Story Forum
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Why do the writers keep trying to beat Alliance over the head in this regard by calling her desire for justice irrational and wrong?

I’m not going to go over all the MANY legitimate reasons Tyrande had for going after Sylvanas because they’ve already been beaten to death. Sufficed to say, the Night Elf people were given no restitution for any of it.

Sylvanas was specifically responsible for all of it, but she couldn’t have done it without the Horde willfully going along with it until they once again decided to grow a conscience long after the damage had already been done.

Bottom line, Tyrande isn’t being irrational or driven by hatred. She has a legitimate grievance and has gone to the lengths she has because it is pretty much the only way she’d be able to finally bring Sylvanas to justice.

I’d be angry at the rest of the Alliance too for trying to talk me down and ‘let it go,’ how self righteous would Anduin have been if the people of Stormwind were the ones callously burned to death for no purpose and then have Tyrande tell him to ‘get over it,’ make peace with the same Horde who let it happen and didn’t even put any of the actual offenders on trial or offer any restitution?

That wasn’t justice, it was political convenience from people who hadn’t suffered remotely as harshly as the NEs who lost everything and weren’t even consulted about a potential peace agreement with ZERO concessions from the Horde such as leaving NE lands at minimum but were just expected to get behind it with no questions asked.

And when they didn’t, Anduin actually had the nerve to imply THEY were the problem. I couldn’t think of a worse insult.

Vengeance would have been Tyrande leading the NEs to brutally attack the races of the Horde after the truce in retaliation for their involvement in the Burning of Teldrassil. But she didn’t.

Instead, she focused entirely on hunting down the one person she knew was 100% responsible for it and who had fled Azeroth to avoid the repercussions of her actions. She was even willing to sacrifice her own life if it meant the villain responsible paid for her crimes to her people.

And that’s what makes this recent direction all the more nauseating by not only continuing to treat it as blind vengeance but something Tyrande should actually be feeling bad about.

It’s like listening to people who spend years working to save serial killers from execution because they think capital punishment is ‘barbaric’ without giving any thought to the barbarity inflicted on those killed by them.

They’re so concerned about the ‘rights’ of the serial killer, what about the ‘rights’ of their victims? When did that cease to matter?

That’s how the developers have come to look in their obsessive desire to ‘redeem’ Sylvanas while painting anyone with a legitimate grievance against her as some irrational and bloodthirsty warmonger who should feel bad about it and be insultingly and repeatedly beaten over the head with it as the underlying problem instead of the actual person who committed literal genocide.

I’m just disappointed that the developers have let their unabashed love of one long-standing lore character ruin the story for so many others.

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This unfortunately is within Blizzard’s usual style. They have this habit of going way too far with inciting incidents in the faction war, not presenting it in the sort of balanced fashion that a faction war in an MMORPG with players on both sides would require, and then trying to blame and shame people for reacting in the predictable way that people would act in response to said inciting incidents.

Blizzard’s response to the demolition of Alliance pride was to declare that pride was evil anyway in the next expansion, shortly before they released a book whose lesson was that everyone is as bad as Garrosh because reasons. It really doesn’t surprise me that their manner of wriggling out of this one was to make statements on the level of “‘Never Again’ is wrong”.

I think they do this because they want the Horde to act like the villain, but then someone taps them on the shoulder and reminds them that this is a two faction game, and that it is therefore not possible for the Alliance to get resolution for the things that the Horde does - or at least not resolution that a typical audience would in any way find satisfying.

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They wanted the night elves to be wiped out and their zones gone with no resolution, so they did the former and as a resolution, told us that Tyrande will no longer seek justice and that we have to focus on renewal. The catch is that there can’t be renewal since the Night Elf souls were obliterated in the maw, and they now have both the Horde and Sylvanas being innocent angels so that they can portray Tyrande as “consumed by vengeance” and wrong.

The writers entire goal was to get rid of the Night Elves from the story and setting, and so they did. They have no reason to give the Night Elves anything at all with that goal in mind, therefore they had to portray Tyrande’s quest for justice as something wrong and irrational. They also don’t have to give the Night Elves any of their zones back or a new home since well, they were obliterated in the maw, so the Horde can just keep whatever remains of their zones.
They are even celebrating Sylvanas as a hero now for doing what she did to Night Elves, I think that says enough already.

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Tyrande was most definitely pursuing vengeance; The Ardenweald campaign is very clear on that. Vengeance doesn’t preclude justice, it just means she was single minded on that focus when far more important things had to be done.
Canon lore for Torghast additionally states that the Tower can rearrange its interior according to the Jailor’s will, so Tyrande was single minded in a situation where realistically she would never reach Sylvanas.
Her actually fighting Sylvanas even required her to actually leave the Maw, just as Shandris had tried to get her to do earlier; so she could have been fighting Sylvanas from the very start of the Ardenweald invasion rather then the culmination.

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Doesn’t really matter since Tyrande lost anyway, right?

Since Elune magically had to abandon Tyrande in the most crucial moment to protect Sylvanas, because the writers also had to take away Elune from the Night Elves.
I guess an extinct race whose souls have been obliterated doesn’t need a goddess

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Until we get actual confirmation on what the reason for that was, I’m still going to believe that the power that is supposed to kill her… was killing her. Maybe she would have been able to fight more if she hadn’t been flexing in Torghast for however long.
That’s simple speculation at this point, but hopefully Blizzard will actually give a useful explanation.

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Nope, the power has worked without problems for months if not more. The power didn’t run out when Tyrande needed it for 3 more seconds to kill Sylvanas, Elune just chose to abandon her like she abandoned the souls of the Night Elves in the maw to be obliterated.

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If it’s a finite resource that would be entirely how it works, having no problems until the resource runs dry (whether the resource is granted power or Tyrande’s ‘life force’)

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so in short, as I keep repeating, you’re mad you didn’t get your fanfiction ending of her truedeathing Sylvannas.
Meanwhile, you ignored that the NE souls have been rescued while Tyrande’s been seeking vengenge. You know, the Maw Walker covenant campaigns that have us rescuing souls in the Maw and bringing them to their respected covenants (not every night elf immediately goes to Ardenweald, but its mentioned in the Night Fae campaign that we rescued them, thus ensuring that their respected afterlife is there.)

Meanwhile in Azeroth, the NE’s have reclaimed Nordrassil and Darkshore (with speculations that Ashenvale may be reclaimed)

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No they haven’t been rescued, only a very small portion of them.

Nope, she has been seeking justice, and she hasn’t brought a single one to justice ever. Meanwhile those that actively killed civilians (Horde shamans, those in darkshore etc.) or those that tortured and obliterated the Night Elf souls in the maw got away entirely and/or were glorified.

It’s actually mentioned that many more are still stuck in the maw, and we never free them.

The Horde never left Hyjal and there are also like no Night Elves left in the first place

Speculations are pointless when official lore tells us that the Horde owns it. It’s also a really weird speculation because who is going to reclaim Ashenvale for the Night Elves ? Especially during a time of peace.

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with more being rescued in 9.1 and later. Not only that but many are sent to other realms as I said.

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I would disagree.

The Ardenweald Campaign pushing the idea that it’s vengeance is the developers once again trying to tell us how they want us to think about Tyrande. She may have been overly singleminded in Torghast, but her intent was to also release some of the Night Elf souls being tormented there which she eventually does before leaving to pursue Sylvanas elsewhere.

Jaina wanting to use the Focusing Iris to destroy Orgimmar regardless of the innocents inside was vengeance not justice because it blinded her to who she was actually willing to kill in order to eliminate one target in particular.

Maiev willing to sacrifice Tyrande and lie to Malfurion to see Illidan dead was vengeance not justice because she was willing to let her bias and obsession with avenging herself on Illidan for the loss of her sisters in the ToS influence her to callously throw away her own allies and see someone killed by his own brother because she told him Illidan was responsible for Tyrande’s death when he wasn’t.

Tyrande isn’t tearing through Horde in a zealous rage to get her hands on Sylvanas. Despite what she thinks of their cowardice and culpability in following Sylvanas’ orders until she finally turned on them, she doesn’t butcher Horde players outright but grudgingly works alongside them in order to see justice done and ultimately find her quarry.

Like I mentioned, she’s singleminded but she hasn’t abandoned her morality nor is she willing to slaughter innocents in order to reach Sylvanas.

She wants JUSTICE, and if Sylvanas was ended right there in Ardenweald I believe she would have been content with that and thereafter laid down the mantle of Night Warrior because she would have no more need for it.

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I see that you found a new thread. Please answer my question from the other thread.

Thank you.

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Uh that never happened. There wasn’t even a single new quest to rescue Night Elf souls in 9.1, and we were also never told that we freed more.

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what? what horde are glorified that do that stuff? mawsworn are being killed and not glorified and the horde in Darkshore are routed and slaughtered…

again, they’re also being actively rescued by the covenants

the “horde” are mostly neutral groups (Earthen Ring/Cenarion Circle) that linger in order to protect nature. Not tied to political basis but otherwise, and originally, Nordrassil was the Night Elf home since WC3 (Teldrassil was a fake one created in a vain attempt to regain immortal.)

Political treaties? the fact the Night Elves do want to regain their homes?

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wow…I know you were mad but now you’re stalking me?
Chill out, it’s just a game and not real life

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Maybe I am misunderstanding your intent but rescuing the souls still doesn’t fix the whole issue of them getting murdered in the first place.

Reclaiming land that the Horde conquered and destroyed doesn’t fix that they got conquered and destroyed in the first place.

So Sylvanas and the Horde largely escaping Night Elf vengeance is annoying since the issues I mentioned above are left unaddressed.
But I will say Ethriel you do get on people’s nerve of being so hyper negative all the time.

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I tend to monitor several threads, and you may have noticed that I already posted in this one. That being said, I noticed a) that you participated here, and b) that you’re bringing up Ashenvale again and I had an open question for you on it.

Please answer that question.

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Saurfang, Sylvanas, the entire Horde at the Blizzcon etc.

The darkshore battle was a back and forth, and the Horde managed to prevent the Night Elves from reclaiming Ashenvale.

It doesn’t matter if its “fake” or not when the Night Elves present in it were wiped out along with those in Darkshore and Ashenvale.

There was an armistice, and an armistice would forbid the Night Elves to attack Ashenvale if they were still alive.

Which ones, the handful we saved in Ardenweald or the overwhelming majority obliterated in the maw? I don’t think either of them are affected by what happens in Azeroth.

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She hasn’t had to. The perpetrator left the Horde before she had to make that decision. She has focused the entire point of justice on Sylvanas specifically and still at the expense of any other issue. She is still vengeance driven even if the plot makes it so she doesn’t have to sacrifice morals to do so.
Hells, the patch that introduced the Night Warrior concept was called Tides of Vengeance. Blizzard hasn’t exactly been subtle about what they’ve wanted the storyline to be.

This is not quite how her lines work out. She doesn’t really state that she is intent on saving Night Elf souls until Shandris begs her to leave, and even then tacks killing Sylvanas to the end of it.
If you are Alliance of course.
If you are Horde she doesn’t say a single word about being there to save Night Elf Souls.
Instead just says that we will atone for our peoples crimes when Shandris brings up that we can save Night Elf Souls while Tyrande wants to claim vengeance (her literal phrasing is ‘While I claim vengeance for the kaldorei.’)

EDIT: On that point, can we have a side point on how annoying it is when characters get very different dialogue between factions in this manner. Like most of Tyrande’s meaning in that scene is nebulous because it has different writing for faction.

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