Two and a half weeks later and Blizzard is already back to BFA mindset

Have a guild timer. Just make it 20 minutes for ML to take affect after new people join.

It’ll be a hassle enough to deter that from happening.

Also it’ll be inter-server which is also another barrier. It’ll create a bad name for the guild once that keeps happening.

Everything will result in negative experiences anyways lol. I can type to you in chat to call you a bad player. Boom. Game is ruined for some very sensitive people.

Blizzard is trying to mitigate the negative experiences.

It’s less likely to occur in negative experiences with a Guild-Only ML perk system while creating happiness for more people. This is good mitigation. Groups would love this and it would create more positive experiences than negative.

So if you join a guild… you have to wait 20 min before you can raid with that guild now?

You think that’s a good thing?

You can however weight the statistics in combination with reality, as most guilds did do and continue to do.

Idk, at the end of the day I think both options should be available. ML in its final form during Legion was perfectly fine and already heavily mitigated the chances of getting ninjalooted to the point where you couldn’t even really call it ninjalooting anymore.

More options is always good. I hate personal but I still think it should be in the game alongside ML.

Edit: forgot a word

Once a week in other words. Veteran raid rank took around 3 months of raiding to obtain each Xpac.

It was designed for bad luck rolls, or for ppl to finish that last piece or 2 of gear that had been eluding them.

So raiding guilds never pug 1-2 people?
The issue is a guild only master looter would require every raider to be part of the guild.

Which in this day and age isn’t always practical. Also they would have to be on the same realm. Otherwise shenanigans could happen.

he’s grasping at straws with ridiculous hypotheticals because he likes the fact that selfishness is rewarded and that you can get a BiS trinket even if you die 30 seconds into a fight. lol

Some of the missions scale with your level like Soul Ash missions, that doesn’t feel great.

That’s slightly interesting. I wonder if they will extend that opinion to scaling in the open world at some point in the future, because it also feels really bad.

You could get that anyway with ML… and it did happen more often then you’d think

And? If that rando chooses to accept he’s accepted to be a big boy and take a small risk. I had turned down many pugs in WoD because they were doing ML, it better be personal or I was not going to pug with them. No reserved loot.

What right do you have to force someone else to play by your rules?

No right. Which is exactly why they got rid of ML because that is precisely what it allowed.

Now everyone plays with the same rules.
Regardless of pug. Regardless of guild group.

Regardless of motive.

Why would random players who get pugged join a ML run where it’s all but garunteed they won’t get gear?

Where if in the current system they can currently be garunteed at least the RNG chance for gear.

The person who is pugging is the one who loses the ultimate power to control gear. That’s the problem.

You’re just laying out why ML won’t be coming back for Pugs, ever. Blizzard is aware that ML will result in Pugs creating negative experiences for players.

The only way ML would come back is if players have the leverage over the minority of loot councils and in-crowds that run the groups who often farm the playerbase and abuse them for loot. One way players would have leverage is if it was also bringing value to guilds. Say a Guild ML perk system with the 20 minute protection system to prevent abusing guildies.

Because people don’t dictate what groups are available. If the only groups available to join are ML groups.

Also - you are assuming people will advertise ML which didn’t always happen.

Adding ML as a guild perk doesn’t make much sense… if you pug one person that becomes unavailable? If you loose someone in the middle of a raid, that would cause loot type to switch?

It’s a logistic nightmare.

It’s like talking to a wall. You didn’t have to be in a guild with ML. Tell me, when were you ever forced to be in a guild with ML, everyone in my old guild did play by the same ML rules and ML can be more fair. Why should a rando who just joined the guild 1 day ago and keeps dying to fire on the ground have the same opportunity as the MT who has shown up every week for the last 6 months? How is that fair?

So ya know what guilds do now? They kick the new player and that player never gets loot or they just don’t invite new under geared players. So ya, that’s working out great eh?

It’s was your choice after all. What next, are they going to start making guilds accept any new undergeared player? Because that is the same line of thinking.

I feel like you are confused.

You didn’t have to be in a guild to use ML…
that was the problem.

ML could take advantage of pug players.

The people “carying” also have a benefit under the new system in a pug environment.

They wouldn’t before.

Make your own groups.

LoL just like they say in the IO M+ discusions… Then form your own guild/raid. The truth is 99% of the time is those people don’t have the skill to form their own guild because they are not good enough. So they instead want to force other guilds to pass out loot as they see fit even though THEY ONLY PUG 99.9% of the time.

That doesn’t fix the issue of people taking advantage of others lol.

ML had flaws. And those flaws eventually lead to its removal.

I don’t see any legitimate suggestions on how to fix those flaws.

It doesn’t have to. Some people will always take advantage, so hurting players who don’t isn’t a good idea.

That is the entire argument made by pro ML people. Guilds should be able to use what ever loot rules they want. Then when we say that you guys make up reason why that’s not ok either. Like…

I mean seriously you are double speaking so fast you seem to be forgetting what you said 10 min ago.

this thread has devolved into the mean ML taking advantage of the poor, poor puggers. as if you didn’t have a choice to make your own group if what you wanted was on reserve in the groups that were up?

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