Templates were removed though because it killed the RPG aspect of the game (Ion’s words) They were a huge failure that caused PvP players to quit. I couldn’t play because of Templates there was no point because you removed the entire point of playing this game. So I left like most PvP players did.
Templates were a huge failure and never should of happened. That is why the Devs said Templates were a mistake. We play a gear based game because we LOVE GEAR and gaining power to gain an advantage. It’s why we log in so we can Min/Max and create some build to Yeet another enemy.
Then why are you playing a gear based game? I only like playing RPG PvP games because the whole fun is becoming OP to destroy your enemy. To take a build to some extreme and dominate your enemy. That is what makes RPG PvP special and better than FPS or MOBAs.
It really weird that some of you don’t seem to understand the game you are playing or it’s core design. What you want would destroy the essence of the game. Templates did for awhile… at least the Devs removed that garbage.
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Heirlooms do not have ideal PVP stats on them for the most part. Costly to boot!
Secondly, crafted options (ideal stat options) are basically Free, (which rely on gathering/time spent.)
What you are doing is exactly how the game has been historically designed to be played, the upkeep to retain our characters power along the way.
Vendors, Dungeons, Quests, Boes etc. The list can go on.
At one point in time (wotlk, after separation.) these forums had threads with players up in arms vs others in full Heirlooms.
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Twinking is what it is. I made leggos on a 60,000hp DH 2 days ago and was wrecking 90,000hp Warriors. Am I probably better than the average low MMR solo shuffle player? Yes. Was my ability to win games at a massive power disadvantage almost entirely reliant on DH being overtuned? Yes.
Twinking is probably the same way. You have someone custom designed to do the output of 5 toons, wrecking people who aren’t, and probably don’t PVP much anyway. Good players will be really, rrally, really good, okay players will be good, and meh players will still be better by nature of the design.
But that still isn’t going to translate to rated prowess. Arena and RBGs aren’t even relatable skill sets, just like solo shuffle will be it’s own skill set. The only definite thing they have in common is you do better the higher your knowledge about your class is.
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its not a scene its an arms race
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From what I hear a few pvp players quit because they could no longer destroy lower geared players and were being beaten more because it was fairer. Ion may have said it was a “mistake” but pvp participation was up overall.
Oh I’m aware heirlooms don’t have ideal PVP stats but its the easiest method for maintaining a suitable gear level so I’m not being 2 shot by very geared players (twinks) with BIS or 60 syncers who want some easy wins.
Yeah I’m upkeeping my gear to maintain relevance in BGs as I level because I have to. Otherwise I’m deadweight to my team and can’t successfully defend a node for eg against some twink/syncer.
I would rather just log in and do a couple chill games but I have to do a couple dungeons to keep up to date on the off-pieces of gear. I would rather not as I find that aspect a bit boring but I have to in order to pvp.
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Without gear you will be deadweight against a character just like yourself is what I’m getting at.
Customization via Stats/Builds is what this game is all about.
The beauty of lower levels, is the paramount fact that this can all be obtained without any gating/rating or organized group settings.
Access to all, equally.
I would not agree at all, level up to end game where this is much more rampant.
As per design.
Dragonflight is looking to have the same power levels Accessible to all players equally.
This may curb the SL exodus imo.
I was more talking about Legion Templates max pvp… some of my friends went to pve and world pvp only during that expansion because they could no longer dominate in BGs by having BIS Gear.
No there was a massive fall off in PvP players and especially from PvE where their gear just didn’t work in PvP. The day I quit was when my PvP trinket didn’t work in PvP. Legion was unplayable because I couldn’t make a build. I couldn’t Min/Max or build the character I enjoy so there was no point to play instanced PvP.
If you can’t Theorycrafting Min/Max some fun build there is no point in playing WoW. It’s the core of the game and RPG aspect we need. You need gems, enchants, professions, stats, trinkets, Tier to matter.
It’s a tremendous shame that Templates were put into this game because it’s obvious how wrong they are and can never work. Templates just go against the core design of the game. Which is why so many players quit. I quit and when Blizz asked why I said get rid of Templates and I’ll come back.
Ion said it was a mistake because they were obviously wrong for the game but the Devs wanted to try them. Templates were a massive failure and hurt the core of the game and drove participation down. That is why they were removed because players left because they couldn’t build characters anymore… The RPG aspect of the game was gone so it killed WoW.
Templates = Uninstall
Templates are AntiWoW
These are the facts.
Nah pvp particpation was up overall. Stats dont lie.
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Stats don’t lie. If Templates had a positive impact on the game they wouldn’t of removed them, the Devs wouldn’t of apologized for them and called them a mistake.
Templates ruined Legion’s PvP which is a shame because Legion was a good expansion overall. I did enjoy WPvP in Legion where there were no templates but still ended up Quitting because I couldn’t do instanced PvP and play my build in it.
Sorry but you are wrong and misinformed.
Templates were one of the biggest mistakes ever made in PvP in this game and were massively hated by the community, so they got rid of them.
Now you know.
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Templates…scaling . These are pvp cancer! Anytime people mention these things they automatically Passover the underlying issue. Scaling and templates were a bandaid fix for a much deeper pvp problem that blizz can’t or won’t fix
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Correct.
Correct.
Blizz caved and said why not maybe this will make people happy. They tried it and pissed everyone off. So Blizz said well at least now we know they don’t work, lets scratch that off the list.
Fixing PvP is actually simple but requires “Time and Resources/Devs”. It won’t be fixed in DF because the PvP gear at the vendor is almost back at Templates. There is no variety and you can’t get the stats you need to make builds. Versa is PvP’s biggest problem and needs to be removed.
PvP needs a PvP stat again. Versa is NOT a PvP stat because it is part of all spell modifiers and in today’s game there are WAY to many spell modifiers which makes PvP impossible to balance. You need a separate stat that isn’t part of ANY modifiers that effects everyone the same. Versa does NOT effect everyone the same creating balance problems.
PvP won’t be good or balanced till Versa is gone. Or a PvP stat is added to create the tuning nob on balance in PvP. Then removing PvP modifiers and changing design at the core.
I agree. While I didn’t actually like stacking resilience it caused a good separation. Melee healers tanks anyone who stepped foot into pvp who had resilience benefited but it didn’t adjust your rng casting or crit powers etc.
I was sonpissed when they took out resilience. What that really did was shut out the carebears from pve world which I liked.
Templates were awful, having 7% haste as a priest in lvling bgs felt like crap lol.
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Agreed. That’s why anyone who calls for scaling or templates instantly sets themselves out as someone complete uneducated about pvp
I understand what your trying to say, but end game is end game.
Twinking is low-level players exploiting, cheating, etc (Not all of them) to gain the advantage over low-level noobs.
No one has ever referred to max level as twinking, apart from deluded twinks at the low level.
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Enhancing your levelers in the same methods as a Twink would do is not exploiting.
Just the same as choosing your correct pieces for end game PVP, might even be much easier as there are only 2 options…
Exploiting is a whole separate thing, not to be confused with players enjoying the game to it’s fullest at low levels.
It really isn’t.
It is though. Everyone that plays an RPG (gear based game) is a Twink. We log in for one purpose. To Twink our characters. What level you do it at doesn’t matter. So this desire to try and “kill” twinking is misguided because you are trying to kill the entire purpose of playing the game.
Once you reach Max level you start Twinking. So the question is Twinking Good or Bad is an odd one since Twinking is required in World of Warcraft. If you don’t like Twinking then you are playing the wrong genre of games. Gear based games aren’t likely for you.
It’s just annoying when people hate Twinks when they are Subbed to a game where everyone is supposed to be a Twink. It’s literally the purpose of the game. You get to Max level you start gemming, buying enchants, upgrading gear to Epics… You are a Twink!!!
So hating on people for doing what you ARE SUPPOSED to do just cause they do it at a lower lvl is just idiotic and hypocritical. PvP was so much better before this weird witch hunt began for Twinks. It’s one of the reasons Retail PvP has been so bad for so long.