What gear do you fellow Warriors use for Twin Emps?
And what trinkets do you find work the best on that fight?
I currently use Lifegiving Gem and ZG trinket and rotate as many trinket uses as I can on the melee boss, but curious if that was optimal.
Is it worth using Styleen’s, due to the debuff?
I’m most concerned about mitigating through the unbalancing strike and the debuff it applies. Thanks!
Save Shield Block for after the debuff lands and aim for the highest EH you can squeeze out, similar to Broodlord.
You’ll take more damage over the long run on Twins compared to Broodlord thanks to the debuff, but the actual deadly burst (auto-Unbalancing-auto in a single batch) is actually a tad weaker than Broodlord doing the exact same thing.
Chug Greater Stoneshields and enjoy the back-to-back crushing blows!
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What are you referring to when you say EH? And are you def capped?
EH = Effective Health
EH is the measurement of how much Health and Mitigation you have. In the case of physical damage, this would mean Health, Armor, and Defensive Stance. In the case of magic damage, this would mean Health, Resistance, and Defensive Stance. In other words, you want as much Stamina/Armor as you can squeeze out if you’re aiming for high EH. This is why Greater Stoneshield Potions are so awesome as they give a huge chunk of Armor for little effort.
The point of having high EH is to avoid exploding from 100% to dead in a single batch of attacks. Even if that isn’t possible with your current available gear and buffs, there is still value in getting EH as it reduces the likelihood of getting exploded. So for Twin Emperors, you need to be prepared for a massive spike of damage in the form of Autoattack+Unbalancing Strike+Autoattack in a single batch. This kind of spike can range between 550% and 750% of a melee hit, depending on whether the autos Crush or Crit.
Defense cap really doesn’t help too much on this fight for anyone since Unbalancing Strike reduces your Defense by 100 for 6 sec, and the boss can use the ability roughly once every 10 sec. Put another way, the boss ability trims off 20 levels worth of innate defense skill. However, if you are soft-capped on Defense, you can more or less ensure that the first auto before the Unbalancing can never Critically Hit, making the worst-case burst 650% of a melee hit. If you save Shield Block for when Unbalancing Strike is ready to land, you can help reduce the immediate burst that follows as well.
The Twins are not a threat sensitive fight. The flat threat bump a Tank gets on top of generally having full or near full Rage every time they teleport back to you lets even a full Avoidance/Mitigation stacked Tank hold pretty well. Plus it just isn’t worth it to unnecessarily soften up your defenses in favor of threat if you’re already rolling the dice on whether a nasty combo can kill you because the fight is long enough to give Vek’nilash an opportunity to RNG that combo.
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I disagree, being as close to the defense cap while maintaining 9% hit is critical on this fight. The same way you’d use a stoneshield pot on Chromag with the acid breath. As a rule of thumb, you want to be at about 400-410 for Twins on in AQ40 and the first 3-4 bosses in Naxx. (Hopefully picking up more to get to the hard cap).
All of us have to remember, not every guild is filled with elite healing teams. Fury/Prot only takes you so far. When the bosses actually start really hitting like bosses and not glorified trash mobs, then you need a big boy tank and not the pansy “I can’t decide how to play” garbage that’s infected all of Classic.
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It’s worth stacking up to around 380 def so that you’re only dropped to 280 with the debuff. This will let you continue to push crit/crush off the hit table with shield block. 405 to 305 after debuff is ideal for the formula, but stacking def that high sacrifices too many other stats. Styleen’s is a good choice for that fight over the ZG trinket; you’ll have your shield out often and the extra block helps with crit/crush immune.
If your post debuff def rating is too low, you won’t be able to make yourself crit/crush immune with shield block, and veknilosh have high enough crit/crush to land one on every swing.
Literally zero mitigation difference between fury prot and deep prot, and stacking lots of def vs threat is purely a choice of gear, not spec. Stacking 400-410 skill is pointless with shield block. Stacking up to 440 to crit immune is equally wasteful as you’re still subject to crushing blows and still using shield block during mitigation phases.
This isn’t about elite vs non-elite, this is about the fact that the mechanics of the fight force you to deal with Crushing Blows and Critical Strikes. You can reduce the incidence rate to be sure, but you and your Healers must be capable of handling a rather substantial amount of burst without you just falling flat on your face. This is why Demo Shout/Roar is so critical to maintain on Twins, and Screech too if your Hunters aren’t idiots.
Fury-Prot lacks none of the defensive modifiers of Deep Prot. I’m not sure why people seem to equate the former with exclusively DW-paper-thin-armor and the latter with MAXIMUM-OVER-DEFENSE modes. With the amount of AP available now, Bloodthirst hits plenty hard compared to Shield Slam (and exceeds it on threat as well) and the incoming damage is enough to keep everyone near full on Rage.
You’re going to miss anyway, and this fight has travel time for the melee as well as alternative targets that need cleaning up. If you’re unnecessarily exposing yourself to sudden death just to get another 2-3% Hit on your gear, you’re not helping your raid at all. You can win with a dead Rogue. You can’t win with a dead Tank.
This makes sense to make every press of Shield Block a guarantee. Unfortunately between autos, random bug aggro, and the two instant attacks available to Vek’nilash, you can lose your charges rather quickly and still eat a Crit/Crush. But 380 is… pretty easy to get to honestly, so that’s a solid threshold.
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omg… This has been proven to be false over and over and over and over again. You don’t have the talent points to pick everything up if you go fury/prot. It’s mathematically impossible.
There was a very good thread on this a couple of weeks ago when someone outlined the math.
Yeah, you’re going to eat a crit/crush anyway because there are more than 2 hits coming every 5s, but it will ensure that at least 2 hits aren’t crit/crush.
/facedesk
If you’re at 425+ you darn near effectively move crushing attacks off the table. It becomes something like a 2% chance to happen after that. If you achieve the 440 cap (which isn’t really possible until Naxx gearing) AND maintain the 9% hit (which is easy with Naxx) then you effectively (from a statistical standpoint) move crushes off the table.
Of course it can still happen on some fights, depending on the speed at which you’re getting hit, but it’s a VERY low chance.
Anyone with working eyeballs who is literate enough to read can look at the prot tree and see that there is ZERO MITIGATION in deep prot. Deep prot is 100% threat skills that scale worse than deep fury. That’s why the spec developed. A fury prot tank can also put a shield on, and can also have imp shield block, and can also have imp revenge/imp sunder/imp taunt as well. As far as the math is concerned, fury prot scales much harder than the flat threat of deep prot. Deep prot is an undergeared tank spec.
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Every defense talent is available that guarantees any success. Avoidance talents like Anticipation and Deflection will reduce your overall damage taken, but won’t actually save you from anything related to burst. My healers enjoy healing me over our Warrior on Twins because I “feel” easier to heal since I’m just taking nice steady hits nonstop compared to his nothing-nothing-OMG-nothing-nothing spikes. My damage taken for the fight is WAY more, but if you look at Unbalancing Strike damage, I’m laughing that “burst” off entirely, and without any consumables to boot.
…wut?
Do you mean Critical Strikes? Because 440 Defense doesn’t do jack to the 15% Crushing Blow rate.
That’s entirely not the point. You have a binary success chance with incoming burst: survive it or die and wipe the raid. If you lack the EH necessary to handle the RNG burst, and you could gear to avoid that burst death, that is an error on your part. DPS can always slow down and Twins isn’t a particularly fast fight anyway. Unlike rolling the dice on a 1min Broodlord kill, Twins will get many opportunities to global you, notably on every single teleport.
Again, someone ON THESE FORUMS proved this to be false. Please refer to that thread. For snap threat and midigation fury/prot does not have the talent points to get what is needed at Classic end game without relying on elite healing teams and putting stress on them.
In addition, I grab threat easily from fury/prot without trying. The threat gen is dependent on crit hits and keeping flurry up, which increases your chance to be parried, which in turn makes you take significantly more damage than deep prot.
This has been gone over before. Again and again and again. Its fine for MC, BWL (mostly) and the first 5 in AQ40. Patchwerk is going to turn you to a puddle, every time.
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Wrong again. Extra defense beyond the level cap does not reduce crushing blow chance. The lowest it can be is 15%.
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I said, “Effectively” just like EH, you have Effectively removed it. You don’t actually have 10k HPs physically when you talk about EH. Just like you don’t have an “effective” chance to move crushing to 0%.
Big Bird says, "The word of the day boys and girls is “effectively”
You don’t understand the things coming out of your mouth. There’s a measurable threat value for both Shield Slam and Bloodthirst. By virtue of scaling with AP, Bloodthirst harshly outscales Shield Slam with threat stats. Additionally, the combination of Flurry, Enrage, and Deathwish further widen this threat gap. The entire spec comes with no loss to mitigation vs a deep prot warrior. Even in the case of having to stack mitigation, the fury prot will still have better threat tools.
Flurry doesn’t increase your chance to get parried. More attacks will lead to more parries, but it’s also more attacks, which is more threat. The boss parry chance doesn’t increase because you’re attacking it faster.
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Someone, somewhere, proved something that is demonstrably false? You’re going to have to link this mythical thread because no, there is nothing beyond Toughness and Improved Shield Block that guarantees any sort of Mitigation, and its arguable whether we should even count Imp. SB as part of Mitigation.
Bloodthirst is just fine in raiding as Rage isn’t a problem. In 5mans, sure, perhaps, but those are “tankable” by literally any class with a half-awake Healer.
I’m beginning to think you don’t know what Mitigation means.
LOL no.
That’s not even remotely how Defense works or how this word is used.
Deep prot is a dead spec, If you’re trying to say deep prot is somehow ideal for this fight then you’re an idiot and there’s nothing further to say to you.
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What in the world do you think words mean? Effective Health is literally max health calculated based on mitigation. A tank with 10k max health and 50% mitigation has 20k effective healtlh.
Meanwhile, you cannot reduce crushing blow chance beneath 15%. You just conflated a literal use of “effectively” with a figurative use of “effectively”. You are a clown show of a human being. The absolute state of deep prot delusions… just shameful.
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GREAT DISHONOR UPON FAMILY
/giggle