Turning WOTLK into retail

Seriously, the main reason I stopped playing retail was all the Mythic and Key dungeon crap. Handing out raid gear for 5 man content was the end for me. you made raiding worthless since i can just do a 5 man for comparable gear. So I left for Classic where they didnt have that crap. We get 2 expansions of old school gaming. then you decide that you should ruin WOTLK with “alpha, beta, and now Titan” dungeons. And now I think Im done with WOTLK as well. good thing You put out Hardcore. At least with that I dont have retails crap messing it up.


Yea but what about the new people crying about having to do old raid content and not being able to find groups. I hate it also, but I don’t see Blizzard not going that way when moreover they can print more engagement from having people spam more dungeons. They just have a conflicting bias with making a good game vs making a game that makes money.


Catch up mechanics where you are still expected to put in some effort aren’t bad. Did they need to add the extra layers of Heroic? Probably not, but in the end it still helped move people into current content faster.

This is a joy ride, a fun road trip through the before times of WoW, it isn’t serious business. Let people have fun in end game and not be annoyingly stuck scraping through LFG for normal heroics nobody does anymore.


except we can only get the weaker version of gear from the previous raid, so you still have to do the raid to get the best gear from that tier, and can’t get current tier gear without running the current tier’s raid


Agree with OP.

Any and all changes to the Classic Versions of the game ruins what it means to play the game as it was then.


As someone who raids a lot, the catch up mechanics of adding previous tier items on vendors or as drops makes gearing alts way easier and enables more raiding.


Since when 226 gear is raid gear for characters in 245/258? Good for alts - yes. More alts - more pugs on a server! Great idea. Worst part of retail is a mandatory dailies and grinds required for progress. I’m having blast in Wrath classic playing many classes. As a matter of fact I played Alpha only ONCE and none of Betas. It’s NOT required.


I think it’s bizarre to be complaining about catch up content, especially when it only drops 10 man gear from old raids. All it does is make gearing up to be able to current raid content viable for new players, players who took a break, and alts without relying on inconsistent pugs or worse, buying gold and running GDKPs.

Also keeping 5 man content relevant is good, it makes wow feel more like a game where you can hop on and do content that’s useful rather than a job where you’re waiting on everyone else’s schedule and locking in to a raid for hours even just to gear alts.


People need to play exactly like me, or the game is bad :rage:.


No no no, people need to play exactly like ME, or everything is ruined and awful.


I guess we don’t have a choice.
Blizzard should just sell the best gear in the shop.
Isn’t that more “freedom” to play how you want? xd

Choices don’t always make a game better. They have repercussions.

Was this in the vanilla version of WOTLK? NO. then leave it TF out of classic. my point that you people seem to NOT GET, is they are turning the classic experience into a retail version of it. If we wanted to play retail we would be playing retail. You see how many people play that craptastic thing dont you. Everyone about bailed as soon as Classic came out and then even more joined the exodus as soon as Hardcore came out. Leave retail mechanics in retail.


Joke went over your head.

Sure thing, can go right to reductionist (bad faith) statements if you want to.

Still waiting on those I guess…don’t see how providing a fast track to end game is a bad thing. Only thing I can think of is the annoyance regarding lack of normal heroic groups, but RDF is coming soon.


I don’t see how deleting all content as soon as you print new one is viable.
Even for M+ for retail they have found out that it was just not viable.
The game has more content when you consider older content to be part of the game.
Being able to skip content for just spamming the same dungeons is a stupid idea.

Nothing bad faith here, some choices are bad and even if you don’t take those choices they are bad for the game. Even you should be able to realize this.

Saying that something is an option or a choice doesn’t mean that it has not impact.


They didn’t. It’s still there and people, on my realm, still do old content runs as it is more efficient gearing than alpha/beta is. There are just more avenues to get to current content now. There is no reason beyond the nebulous “retail” cries as to this being a bad thing.

M+ is still a big thing for a lot of people and keeps being updated to include older content dungeons in the rotation.

This is the best outcome for a catch up system, I fail again to see how getting more people to current content through different paths is a bad thing.

“just give it away for free” as a response to a system that still requires effort and does not replace raiding is a bad faith take, or at least entirely dismissive and reductionist.

Outside of emptying the normal heroic LFG the outcome is and continues to be positive for a majority.


TLDR: Mad at game company for changes to X, will continue giving them money for changes to Y.


How many naxx groups do you see people run?

Because they recognized that doing the same content like dungeons for a whole expansion for scaled rewards was stupid. Which is exactly what we got.

Catchup is bad if your goal is for people to play the whole game, putting everyone in the last % of the game is how you make a boring mmo. What’s the use of leveling and of playing early on if everything gets replaced and can be skipped? The game is about progression, if that progression isn’t meaningful then there’s no game.

Might as well be for free, doing wotlk dungeons is an handout. And it’s not like the affixes really make them any hard. You could argue if there was a timer but then people would argue it’s no longer casual content… xd

the majority isn’t always right and doesn’t mean anything in an mmo that is already a niche game. You should want to make a game for people that enjoy it, not tourists.

I just miss the OG method of gearing up alts. Post nerf Ulduar & 4 Trial lockouts. I think it’s silly this hard emphasis on keeping dungeons relevant by making raids less relevant. If they wanted to keep dungeons relevant I really think a better system would have just been buffed up heroic loot.

Which would add more content in-between phases. For example if 8 weeks after Nax was released the heroic ilvl gear should have went up x ilvls. Doesn’t devalue any of the raid gear while still making heroics help people catch up. Or they could have made dungeon tier sets or something additional instead of a silly stat buff to the dungeon mobs and gimic mechanics.

For returning players or alts the dungeon method is fine in the current system, but new players really should get raiding practice in and get raid gear from raids before entering the highest tier. Wrath heroics have very little mechanics and teach players nothing to prepare them for raids.

Personally I’m hoping they scrap this version of H+ in Cata and try something else.

The best thing they should have kept doing at minimum would have been to make 25m drop 50% more loot like with Naxx.

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If the only point you have is “it’s like retail” then no one is going to care about your point. The original wotlk was a great expansion but it had issues, particularly in being alt and new player-unfriendly like TBC before it. All this does is somewhat alleviate that problem.

Anyway nothing is stopping you from playing the game without them, they’re not necessary at all. They’ve only kept the game alive off raid hours and if that’s not your jam why not just raid log like everyone else?