Look im not against changes by any means, but can they at least make sense. We buff havoc? Because no one is playing it. Doesn’t mean it’s not very good, definitely does not need a buff of any kind. Marks nerf? Yes but double tap by a % that makes double tap useless? Frost ray nerf? Dude what are we even doing anymore. Ret 3% nerf? This stuff takes the cake. For the record none of us care about the damage about these classes. Yes havoc does good damage, not op not underpowered but good damage. Marks high burst Yes. Is the solution, nerf the one button you think is the problem, and not nerf survivability to get there/comfort of objectively bad lineup of cool downs. Frost ray nerf?? This stuff doesnt even matter in the slightest. That wasnt the problem its the fact that they can’t be stunned. Ever. There’s no counterplay individually. Like as a team yes you can make the mages life harder** than it has to be, but there is no outplaying a mage right now. That’s i think the majority problem we all have. And ret? Ret damage is fine low even if you ask me. Nerfing the damage means nothing. It’s the fact that they have every cd a holy pally has on a shorter cd. I mean seriously give feral iron bark for a teammate, then tranq that scales of agi. Or give ele and enhance shamans spirit link and healing tide. Then you’ll understand why Ret is an issue. Has nothing to do with there damage. It’s that you pruned classes but didn’t take a single thing away from Ret. I think Ret should have a place but I don’t think as the class it is with the buttons it has to ever be anything ever than glad achievable. Not r1. I just wish we had some not fried changes for once let’s buff arcane when the class is changing completely next patch makes sense.
no excuses with AI to be doing this anymore.
Look im not against changes by any means, but can they at least make sense. We buff havoc? Because no one is playing it. Doesn’t mean it’s not very good, definitely does not need a buff of any kind. Marks nerf? Yes but double tap by a % that makes double tap useless? Frost ray nerf? Dude what are we even doing anymore. Ret 3% nerf? This stuff takes the cake. For the record none of us care about the damage about these classes. Yes havoc does good damage, not op not underpowered but good damage. Marks high burst Yes. Is the solution, nerf the one button you think is the problem, and not nerf survivability to get there/comfort of objectively bad lineup of cool downs. Frost ray nerf?? This stuff doesnt even matter in the slightest. That wasnt the problem its the fact that they can’t be stunned. Ever. There’s no counterplay individually. Like as a team yes you can make the mages life harder** than it has to be, but there is no outplaying a mage right now. That’s i think the majority problem we all have. And ret? Ret damage is fine low even if you ask me. Nerfing the damage means nothing. It’s the fact that they have every cd a holy pally has on a shorter cd. I mean seriously give feral iron bark for a teammate, then tranq that scales of agi. Or give ele and enhance shamans spirit link and healing tide. Then you’ll understand why Ret is an issue. Has nothing to do with there damage. It’s that you pruned classes but didn’t take a single thing away from Ret. I think Ret should have a place but I don’t think as the class it is with the buttons it has to ever be anything ever than glad achievable. Not r1. I just wish we had some not fried changes for once let’s buff arcane when the class is changing completely next patch makes sense.
I’m annoyed because to me these are ai changes based on metrics. Which has and always will be stupid. Need someone to actually pay attention and actually adjust the correct knobs.
LMAO 
It was actually very funny seeing that because I don’t think ret has insane damage, it’s actually kinda low, maybe I’m wrong tho. Totally deserved tho.
Nice 
Very much needed, they shouldn’t have increased overall damage tho.
Honestly they were pretty good changes, the ret one got me off guard tho lmao.
these devs have no idea what they are doing they nerf uh dk burst before frost…. they are actually braindead…. and why nerf ret? the dmg isnt a problem… they nerf mage dmg but that wasnt the problem… these devs are on some crazy drugs
I think the classes that got changed made sense for the most part, I just think that havoc didnt need a buff because it was underplayed, but they DID nerf its survivability with the damage buff, which is very good imo.
Glad boomy got a much needed buff, but I dont think 50k starsurge incarn crits now critting for 52k will do anything.
Very surprised rogue wasn’t touched and war wasn’t nerfed more.
because as I said rogues are fine… if anything sub should of been buffed
In what world do these changes make sense? Retribution damage isn’t the problem the utility is. With Frost Mage, Ray of Frost isn’t the issue the problem is that they are unstunnable while having two blocks, two shields, and two invisibilities. Furthermore, how is Unholy DK damage a problem when other classes have shorter burst cooldowns and higher burst potential? So, please tell me how do these changes make sense?
Because the damage is pretty hard to peel and the length of time your cooldowns are up is higher than p much everyone else. I don’t think they want unholy to be green frost dk
Also dk is an absolute menace at low mmr/unranked for low skilled healers to deal with which I think is why it gets kneecapped so hard
The putrefy nerf makes sense now but I don’t think it will next season. Dread plague needs several more 15% buffs before unholy is where they want it they’re just scared
This should never be a factor in game balance.
If they buffed it by 50% maybe I could see this being sensible compensation. 15% on an ability that is often removed and doesn’t do much to begin with is pathetic tbh.
Feels like darts at the wall to me. Yeah the bigger offenders like frost and arms took a hit, but UH? MM? Sure, the burst was too high, but if we want consistent damage to be the meta maybe give them consistent damage and stop with these gentle 15% nudges on something that already doesn’t tick for nearly enough. That thing is literally 3% of my damage in raid lol.
Mage people’s:
Is there some other frost Build that isn’t ray centric that starts to peak now ?
Before I respond, I want you to know that I agree with a lot of what you’re saying. However, read what I said:
The CLASSES that got buffs and nerfs needed them IMO.
While I agree that ret utility and mage survivability are more problematic than their damage, I dont think nerfs to either are out of the question.
Because DK is pretty unpeelable on their go and the damage is higher than most, if not all classes. It also got a buff to already high sustain outside of CDs.
plenty of classes have hard to peel damage nowadays, and UH burst isn’t even close to what Frost is putting out, yet they leave Frost completely untouched? Using the ‘it’s strong at low rating’ argument is such a lazy excuse for bad balancing. so again tell me how it makes sense
You’re being naive. In what world does Unholy DK have the highest burst? You could make a strong argument for Frost, but for Unholy? No way. You’re delusional if you think Unholy is anywhere near having the highest burst in the game.
I don’t think I am at all.
Numerically over the course of its CDs im pretty sure it does. It’s just not all in 1-4 globals like WW or FDK.
Really feels like you’re responding emotionally here over pragmatically.
Also, you’re incorrect. Unholy hasn’t received enough sustained damage to warrant a 15% nerf to both Putrefy and Soul Reaper. They’re getting more sustained damage in 12.1, but that does nothing for us right now, especially this late in the season.
How am I responding emotionally? I’m stating facts. Unholy’s burst isn’t anywhere near other classes saying it ‘does high burst for longer’ isn’t a valid argument. Or do you think Unholy should just be gutted and left unplayable
Well this just isn’t true. If you look at the total damage done by unholy during their cds compared to just about any other class/spec, unholy is going to be the highest. It’s almost always been like this, and it’s largely due to the class lacking hard CC.
Again, Unholy DK doing more damage over a longer window is irrelevant. Do you even know what ‘burst’ actually means