Tune Mythic Plus by class participation, not by raw rankings

[Tailagan-area-52]

@Dwelknarr-lothar

First, the only item in this list that is a true kick is Avenger’s Shield. With the changes to stops coming into TWW where most spells are recast if they aren’t technically kicked, that makes Avenger’s Shield strictly better than the other abilities, which includes everything in the list for Monk.

Leg Sweep
The Monk’s AoE stun serves the same purpose as the Paladin’s counterpart.

Again, if you can only play the easiest class on the list, it doesn’t mean it’s better; it just means it’s easier to play than other tanks.

The potential of all tanks in the game is the same, it’s just that the execution is easier for some and harder for others, that’s all.

I understand that it’s easier for you to blame Paladins rather than learn how to play — it’s a tradition on forums since ancient times.

I see no point in continuing this conversation if people don’t want to understand such basic things.

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

@Tailagan-area-52

Again, if you can only play the easiest class on the list, it doesn’t mean it’s better; it just means it’s easier to play than other tanks.

That doesn’t make any sense.

If it is easier, it is better at least in that regard.

That’s like saying you can open a door with a key, or by smashing your face into it - one is easier but not better as long as the door opens…

[Tailagan-area-52]

@Cursewords-tichondrius

If it is easier, it is better at least in that regard.

Just say it. Don’t say the class is bad, say directly that you’re not willing to develop it for yourself.

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

@Tailagan-area-52

Don’t say the class is bad, say directly that you’re not willing to develop it for yourself.

If the class is lacking in tools to do the same job, when other classes can do them easier - that is a design issue not a player issue.

So the design has to be addressed.

If one tank is easier to play, and easier to heal, it would get more invites than a class that is more difficult to keep alive.

It is a multiplayer game. You can choose to be a hinderance, but you can’t force others to put up with it.

[Octavie-stormrage]

There are merits to both tools. Not every cast can be interrupted either, but some can be stunned, in which case a monk has the advantage. Pala’s are just extremely meta right now because you can take a healer that doesn’t have any kicks (i.e. disc priest).

[Tailagan-area-52]

@Cursewords-tichondrius

If the class is lacking in tools to do the same job, when other classes can do them easier - that is a design issue not a player issue.

So the design has to be addressed.

What do you mean by “no tools”? Every tank has the same set of tools with different execution. If it’s easier for you to press 3 buttons instead of 7, it doesn’t mean the class is bad or its design is bad, it just means you’re a worse player.

Currently, the highest key completed is a 20. Monks are completing 19s, not because they can’t do 20s, but because players aiming for rank 1 min-max everything. If you don’t know what min-maxing is, Google it.

Good night, and a personal suggestion from me: work on your typing speed. I copy your text, translate it in a translator, read it, and then write my response, which I also translate. It ends up being faster than for you.

[Elk-thaurissan]

Look I definitely think Brewmaster needs love but actual performance-wise they were doing just fine at the start of the season.

There’s only 1 tank which was actually hard suffering at the start.

[Awkward-frostmourne (Awkward)]

Lil bro thinks you can “outskill” having literally double the amount of interrupts in your kit.

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

@Octavie-stormrage

Regular Avenger’s Shield isn’t an AoE kick, Divine Toll is.

Yes it is.

Avenger’s Shield
30 yd range
Instant 15 sec cooldown
Requires Paladin
Hurls your shield at an enemy target, dealing (75.3523% of Attack power) Holy damage, interrupting and silencing the non-Player target for 3 sec, and then jumping to 2 additional nearby enemies.

Protection
Shields you for 8 sec, absorbing 60% as much damage as it dealt.

Protection
Deals ((8.04205% of Attack power) * 1) additional damage to all enemies within 5 yds of each target hit.

@Octavie-stormrage

(not really AoE either, just a 5 target random kick)

Fine, it’s not a true AOE. It’s still an at-worst 1 priority/2-random target interrupt that has its cooldown reset all the time that doesn’t take the place of the 15-second single target interrupt paladin also has. Thus, far better than what brewmaster monk has.

@Tailagan-area-52

Leg Sweep
The Monk’s AoE stun serves the same purpose as the Paladin’s counterpart.

The difference is stun versus interrupt.

There are many enemies in dungeons that are immune to stun but have casts that can and should be interrupted. Avenger’s Shield can be used on those enemies for the interrupt, even if the silence does not work.

And again, when dealing with casters, a true interrupt prevents it from immediately being recast, a stun does not. So stunning an enemy for a few seconds only to have it recast still leaves you needing to handle the recast, something you don’t have to do if you interrupt.

Then I guess we’ll ignore the fact that Leg Sweep always has a 1 minute cooldown, compared to Avenger’s Shield having a 15-second cooldown at the absolute worst, but on average much lower due to resets?

@Octavie-stormrage

There are merits to both tools. Not every cast can be interrupted either, but some can be stunned, in which case a monk has the advantage.

Yes, nobody is saying otherwise. But the amount of interruptible casts compared to stunnable casts is probably 100 to 1 in current dungeons.

Further, AOE stuns can come from many places, you don’t need to get that from your tank; there are only 2 multi-target interrupts in the entire game, the other has at best a 45 second cooldown, and Avenger’s shield is the only one that comes from the tank and can be reset every second if you catch some procs. Avenger’s Shield is a one of one ability that comes only from prot paladin; no other tank has anywhere in the ballpark of the same ability to interrupt.

[Cursewords-tichondrius (Cursewords)]

@Tailagan-area-52

Good night, and a personal suggestion from me:

I wouldn’t take any suggestions from someone like you. You have a hard time grasping the issue in the thread and you are totally wrong.

Take a suggestion from me - learn how to read. You even quoted me and still got it wrong.

@Tailagan-area-52

What do you mean by “no tools”?

Learn to read. I never said “no tools” - I said :

@Cursewords-tichondrius

If the class is lacking in tools to do the same job, when other classes can do them easier - that is a design issue not a player issue.

I never said “no tools” - you seem to invent words that are not there. Which may be why you are so wrong.

So, my advice to you is: you should stop giving out advice and learn to read, and maybe you will understand the thread.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Stcloudpandh-dalaran

People like me like to play their favorite class rather than switch to a meta class. So Blizzard should tune Mythic + by classes.

Your class isn’t the reason you aren’t good at mplus.

So no Blizzard should notice around something so stupid.

[Octavie-stormrage]

@Dwelknarr-lothar

Further, AOE stuns can come from many places, you don’t need to get that from your tank; there are only 2 multi-target interrupts in the entire game, the other has at best a 45 second cooldown, and Avenger’s shield is the only one that comes from the tank and can be reset every second if you catch some procs. Avenger’s Shield is a one of one ability that comes only from prot paladin; no other tank has anywhere in the ballpark of the same ability to interrupt.

Again, Avenger’s Shield is not a multi-target interrupt, Divine Toll is. Which is a minute cooldown by default and 45s if you take the talent choice node. I’m not denying a paladin has more available kicks, but you are painting the wrong picture here.

@Dwelknarr-lothar

interrupting and silencing the non-Player target for 3 sec, and then jumping to 2 additional nearby enemies

The jumps afterwards do not interrupt, only the initial hit does.

[Padgarre-lightbringer (Padgarre)]

When there is a leaderboard and infinite scaling there will always be a meta. Only the absolute best specs will be brought that can do enough damage, healing, and tank it in a comp that works well together.

[Tailagan-area-52]

@Cursewords-tichondrius

I wouldn’t take any suggestions from someone like you. You have a hard time grasping the issue in the thread and you are totally wrong.

Take a suggestion from me - learn how to read. You even quoted me and still got it wrong.

Extremely rude. That’s probably why you have a million excuses, because you don’t accept advice. You just want to press one button and win, but it’s not working for you, judging by your achievements.

@Cursewords-tichondrius

Learn to read. I never said “no tools” - I said :

I called my English-speaking neighbor, he’s a native speaker, a true Texan, and he says that I understood everything correctly.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Tailagan-area-52

All tanks have the same amount of stuns and kicks, with the kick being, by the way, just one

Imagine being so confident and so wrong at the same time.

[Tailagan-area-52]

@Snozay-area-52

Imagine being so confident and so wrong at the same time.

What am I wrong about? That people play poorly on classes that require learning and call it bad design?

All tanks in the game are equal. There is min-maxing at a high level in this game. Let’s be honest, not everyone plays at a high level. In the keys you run, the attributes that make Paladins desirable in a 20 key won’t be implemented because you won’t be able to execute them due to poor cooldown distribution and positioning.

Good night.

[Snozay-area-52]

@Tailagan-area-52

What am I wrong about? That people play poorly on classes that require learning and call it bad design

Probably what I quoted.

@Tailagan-area-52

All tanks in the game are equal

No they aren’t. You have to be absurdly clueless to make this statement.

@Tailagan-area-52

Let’s be honest, not everyone plays at a high level. In the keys you run, the attributes that make Paladins desirable in a 20 key won’t be implemented because you won’t be able to execute them due to poor cooldown distribution and positioning

This whole vomit paragraph has zero to do with what you said being wrong

@Tailagan-area-52

Good night.

Like I said.

@Snozay-area-52

Imagine being so confident and so wrong at the same time.

[Ekhana-arugal]

It’s weird because I tend to perform better when I drink. Maybe brewmasters should switch up their formulae.

[Dracarian-medivh]

I say play what you like anyway. Sure you might not be able to do +27s, but you can certainly play any class as high as the rewards go anyway which is what +8 or +10? The only thing wrong with mythic plus is the people who complain about it and the ones that are just really bad at it and feel like it needs to be nerfed. I mean, unless you count the elitists, but if you’re only going to +8, you don’t have to worry about them.

[Dwelknarr-lothar]

@Octavie-stormrage

The jumps afterwards do not interrupt, only the initial hit does.

Thank you for the clarification, I’m sorry I kept pushing, I was mistaken about it being an AOE silence.

With that said though, it’s still another interrupt that has functionally a shorter cooldown than any other interrupt from any other tank spec, which would be immensely powerful in the current M+ climate. And that’s in addition to the standard interrupt all tanks have. And on a spec that does have access to an AOE interrupt unlike any other tank.

I may have gotten the detail wrong with Avenger’s Shield, but that doesn’t change the conclusion I was making in the slightest. If any of these things were true for only one tank, they would be in the unquestioned king of interrupts from that role:

• They have a second interrupt of basically any cooldown length.
• Their standard 15-second cooldown interrupt can have its cooldown reset based on rotational abilities and avoiding damage.
• They have access to multiple interrupts, with one of them being AOE.

The fact that a single tank spec has all of these things, while still having a full compliment of other utility pieces as well, in an environment where non-interrupt stops no longer put those abilities on cooldown, is absolutely wild.

@Tailagan-area-52

All tanks in the game are equal. There is min-maxing at a high level in this game. Let’s be honest, not everyone plays at a high level. In the keys you run, the attributes that make Paladins desirable in a 20 key won’t be implemented because you won’t be able to execute them due to poor cooldown distribution and positioning.

Prot paladin has 3 interrupts, 1 with the same base cooldown that resets in combat and another that’s AOE. Every other tank spec has 1, and the interrupt all other tanks have mirrors the stats of one of paladin’s 3 interrupts.