did you just say this with a straight face? cmon.
I can interrupt a heck of a lot more on my paladin with those shield throws than I can on my bear.
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That still doesnât make them a requirement in isolation and you can still play whatever tank you want in 10s. The push meta right now is built around that advantage though, where you can also bring in a disc priest that doesnât have any interrupts, for PI and good damage. Thereâs always going to be one tank thatâs the preferred one. It doesnât mean thereâs an extreme imbalance or that other tanks are unviable.
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Viability depends on what goals are.
Can all tanks tank a 10? Sure
Are you going to have an easier time in a 10 with a brew over a prot paladin? No not even close.
I think most people can agree brew needs a massive rework.
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I never claimed otherwise. Perhaps you are continuing a conversation with others that claimed that no tank could possibly work in a +10 except prot paladin, but that was not my jumping off point into this thread.
I was solely responding to the claim that the tool belt that prot paladin brings to the table compared to brewmaster monk was the same size. When in reality, not only is the size slanted toward prot paladin, but the usefulness of the tools in the current environment is also slanted toward prot paladin. That statement does not say itâs impossible to successfully time a +10 with a brewmaster, but it will be a more difficult time than if you brought a prot paladin.
To go one step further, by bringing a prot paladin, you also make it easier to form the rest of the group since the paladin can cover the utility you would have to bring from other roles if you brought a tank with a smaller tool belt. So there are more viable combinations that can be brought that +10 by bringing a prot paladin than by bringing a brewmaster.
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I kind of still disagree with that. I play keys with a group of friends, tank has a prot pally and a brew. I prefer when he plays brew. Itâs not by any means âharderâ to do a 10 with one, the group responsibilities just shift slightly. You donât need an interrupt cannon at all. It also differs per dungeon which tool belt is more useful.
I find it hard to believe the only reason you would prefer playing with a specific spec is the utility it brings. When I heal keys on my druid, brewmaster is by far my favorite tank because stagger has such strong synergy with my HoTs. But that doesnât mean the group isnât working harder as a whole when we have one instead of a prot paladin.
What if the rest of the group has a lesser tool kit that was covered up by having a prot paladin? What if there is a weak link in the group who isnât up to taking on that responsibility? If the rest of the group is 3 moonkins and a disc priest, I can basically guarantee the group will have a harder time with a brewmaster than a prot paladin.
At best you are drastically oversimplifying the experience of a lot of group, especially PUG groups. Yeah, if you have a solid core that can shift those responsibilities around seamlessly and if things go sideways you all laugh it off, perhaps you could make do with a warlockâs voidwalker as a tank. But throw in PUGs with potentially wonky group composition decisions and making a change from a prot paladin to a brewmaster is not guaranteed to go as swimmingly.
This is certainly true. The meta options are going to be the best option for the entire pool, but oftentimes there are better choices for individual dungeons.
Are you a healer?
Does your group makeup cover the brews weaknesses more?
Because anyone with common sense wouldnât disagree that prot pal brings kore to the table than a brew
It really is a complexity issue on the two examples you stated. Monks are way too involved for the average player, and even probably a good chunk of the above average (not necessarily because they arenât capable).
Then they do stuff to monks like leaving bugs live into early expansions sometimes for weeks/months. We had a mistweaver bug spreadsheet that Iâm not 100% sure is actually all fixed even now. They like doing stuff like removing the buff icon for Chi Harmony so you need a Cell Unit frames script to actually track it too (the weakauras leave a bit to be desired).
Rogues have had a similar track record of increasing complexity and then leaving things like slice and dice in when it was so hated. Theyâve always been a little bit more involved of a dps, but itâs been dialed up a lot since at least early dragonflight.
Yes Iâm a healer. And no, not really. Any DPS can kick important stuff. Brew rings are nice. The non spiky damage is nice. Extra magic dispell with diffuse is nice. Paralysis is a pretty decent CC for annoying adds. They have good mobility. The only dungeon where I really prefer a pala would be Necrotic Wake for the relentless amount of Necrotic bolts and frost bolt volleys.
Not sure I get what youâre trying to say.
âTune Mythic+ by classâ literally means that the mobs in a dungeon get their numbers modified based on what class enters the dungeon. So if you enter with a meta comp, the mobs will be stronger than if you enter the same dungeon with non meta classes. This makes no sense and would end up being the same thing, people would crunch the numbers and figure out whatever new meta comes out of this.
Meta comps will never disappear, people will always find out whatâs the best thing to play, they did in vanilla before you even played this game, they did in other games before WoW was even the spark of an idea in someoneâs mind.
There is currently no goal focused on formation of meta class teams. Blizzard design classes without playing them, players pick them up and experiment to see whatâs best. Meta comps are not designed.
Should Blizzard spend more time balancing classes to nerf the obviously stronger ones and buff the weaker ones? Yes I agree with you on that, we all want better balance and thereâs very glaring issues specially on classes that stay permanently weak and underplayed (brewmaster, blood DK) and others that stay overpowered or even get buffed when they were in line with the others (prot pallies).
Classes could be better balanced, but it will never be perfect and a meta comp will always exist.
Which is a lot easier with a coordinated group.
But even then you have a weird preference as prot paladin is just hands down better across the board.
And no that doesnât mean brew isnât viable in 10s.
To each their own but thatâs not a common preference
I agree with this statement
Here are the class representation by Tank, Healer, Melee DPS, and Ranged DPS for M+2-12 which encompasses 95% of the playerbase. Clearly, you donât need to be meta to participate.
Remember that they are broken down by Spec, not class.
The assertion that all tank specs have the same amount of stuns and kicks. Paladin has one stun, a normal interrupt, avengerâs shield is a single-target interrupt, and Divine Toll is a 5 target interrupt.
Prot warrior has 3 stuns (Storm Bolt, Shockwave which is an AoE stun, Shield Charge), a normal interrupt, and an AoE interrupt Disrupting Shout should they choose to talent into it.
Death Knight has a single interrupt, a single stun.
Those are all very different numbers.
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Itâs funny because thatâs how Rated PvP works.
Playing an underplayed spec? Hereâs some inflated score every time you win.
And when you lose, you lose either nothing or very little.
Weird to me that PvE is always behind PvP in terms of systems.
Grip works as a stop as well.
Edit: Iâm also very happy about the change coming to Blinding Light. It will actually be worth using and spending a talent point on.
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Donât DKs also have Asphyxiate?
Aka âforce chokeâ, 45 sec cd.
I know mine does, maybe itâs a PvP spec thing and people donât bring it for PvE?
The problem is raid balance exists too.
People sweating about meta at 16+ on GD are barely timing 10s, if at all.
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Asphyxiate was the one that I was thinking of. Technically they also have their ghoul which will occasionally cast a stun on a random target though, I did forget about that.
This was the hilarious irony during the start of the season with people complaining about +10s as if they ever obtained KSH on week 1 in previous Season 1s or at all.