Unstealth stealthers within 20 yards.
That’s really all I have to say. Give us a de-stealthing mechanism.
3 Likes
It should act as a short range repetitive interrupt/silence while it’s up.
It should be usable off gcd.
I’d be happy taking a pvp talent that makes it remove stealth from enemies within say 35yds.
It’d be great if it were to work as a spell reflect to fears too… so warrior/priest/warlock goes in for aoe fear, and fears themselves and their teammates in range.
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I can already see the pitchforks in the distance at all of these suggestions…
I’d be fine if I had to take a specific conduit to get a stealth remover, but given the long cooldown of Tremor Totem, it’d be nice if it were effective against something besides fears. I love it for what it is, but it wouldn’t be overpowered at all if I could choose to use it strategically to unstealth a moonchicken before it can convoke me to death.
I would rather get sentry totem back redesigned as a PvP talent specifically to deal with stealth. 20 yard radius, 3 minute cooldown, greatly increases allies the stealth detection of allies within the totem’s range for 10 seconds.
Tremor also is useful against things other than fears. It breaks charms (mind control and succubus charm) and sleeps (wyvern sting and hibernate)
4 Likes
I’d be totally okay with that if it’s a decent increase range. Rogues don’t even walk up to us to sap us anymore, they just toss the blackjack and hit us from half the arena away.
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tremor totem breaking stealth is a bad idea.
a 3 minute cooldown that lasts 10seconds to deal with stealths is a worse idea.
the only thing that needs to come back to deal with stealths is reliable AoE effects. Rain of Fire. Blizzard as a channeled cast. Magma Totem.
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None of that helps when a rogue can sap, or cheap shot from 40 yds. Rogues and druids have openers that close the gap, so you can be attacked by someone in stealth that’s nowhere near you.
Dropping aoe on yourself doesn’t do anything.
As a Shaman, we either need to be able to see stealth, knock them out of stealth, or be immune to attacks from stealth etc… in order to combat a good rogue/druid, that can kill us in their opener before we’re out of stun (even if we use a trinket, and have over 30% vers and EE out with conduit).
I know every class/spec has a counter. I don’t think rogue is supposed to be ours, otherwise they wouldn’t fall over when we actually hit them just once.
I know that pvp is tuned for groups, but that does not mean that 1v1 someone should be able to completely incapacitate and kill someone, without them even having the option of htting a button. This is the very reason that Shaman don’t have 2h or dw windfury anymore, because it takes skill out of pvp…
So if they’re not going to fix this, they need to give us tools to counter it.
the tools would be reliable AoE…
right now, the tool is earthen harmony.
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There are better solutions, but I’m offering something that gives us utility in an area where we’re woefully inadequate with a tradeoff.
Even if the range was extended to 40 yards, it wouldn’t be OP because we’d be trading our anti-fear utility for 3 minutes for an anti-stealth. It would be quite useful in arenas, and in rogue-heavy battlegrounds.
I think it could be thematically logical too. You’re shaking them out of stealth, as it were.
you’re right, there are better solutions. like mine.
Well aren’t you just full of humble pie.
Even reliable AOE’s don’t give us a “gotcha” against rogue openers either. They see them and walk around them, and they’re arguably less effective than what I’ve proposed.
Magma totem would be acceptable if it had a decent range, but I doubt we’ll see that happen.
all i am saying is bring back how it worked for a decade before Shadowlands tried reinventing the wheel.
I’ll be honest shaman has more than enough utility. Let us use astral shift during stuns or give us some other form of passive defensive. I’d much rather get that over these changes.
Your ideas aren’t bad btw, but there’s no way we’d get both of these things.
oh also true. bring back sham rage.
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Lmaoooooo!!! Every Shaman knows this too but seeing this in text…I’m DEAD!
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The problem is that rogues don’t work the same way they did a decade ago, so giving us back what we had a decade ago doesn’t fix the issue. It needs a fix for how rogues currently work. Even something along the lines of a -50% reduction to stun durations and immunity to stuns for 5 seconds after being stunned, or while astral shift is up (and make it usable while stunned). This would probably be the best way to handle it.
I’d settle for taking tremor totem of the gcd. Usually, I see a fear incoming, I go to press tremor totem, nothing happens, so I mash it a few more times before I realize that the gcd is still ticking and then I’m feared.
3 Likes
the only change to stealth mechanics is they have consistently adjusted Vanish to make incoming damage not break it, and yeah, that favors a rogue at this point, but i think thats fair. vanish SHOULD be a guarantee of stealth. i dont think its perfect yet, but its better than it was from both sides. And also the conduit that provides a shield to protect from DoT effects when stealthed. Even rogues will tell you that conduit needs to go away because it takes the skill out and makes stealthing too easy.
if you want stun reduction theres already tools for it. go orc and take sephuz’s legendary. (you should 9 out of 10 times be orc for pvp anyway)
immunity to stuns… .no. I think you can make an arguement for some ICD on cheap shot because the usual “go” is Kidney shot healer – -> Cheap shot kill target —> Cheap shot kill target —> cheap shot kill target, which is very unpleasant as a kill target, and its unpleasant as a rogue. Rogues will tell you they dont do much damage atm, They do, but not if they are spending all their combo points and energy and shadow dance duration just chain stunning targets. I think they need to rely MORE on kidney shot the kill target instead of triple dr’ing cheap shot. That alone would give them more damage because they can use the gcd’s and energy on damage instead of just cheapshots.
and i really want to point out, that historically, rogues HAVE been the shaman counter. Even when we could sham rage, even when we had AoE totems, even when we could drop totems while silenced and locked out, rogues ate us alive.
Now, i dont think its possible for a fully geared rogue to kill a fully geared shaman. Ive literally had instances in arena where im low health with earthshield and a rogue is on me and my health bar goes up because ES just vastly out heals the rogue damage outside of burst which i can save trinket + wall + lasso for.
Rogues are doing too much damage opening out of stealth. Particularly given how easily and frequently they can re-stealth right now. It’s not so much a shaman problem, as a rogue problem.
The current rogue fix is to not be enhance and have earth elemental primal version for the stun to interrupt their opener. An ele and resto can easily EE stun into cap to soften the blow.
They also have the luxury of necrolord being really strong for pvp allowing them to have the extra shield buffers, as well as a shield to deal with physical dmg like the bleeds.
A passive increasing Enhance armor to the level of resto/ele would do well for white hits from dual wielding classes.
Having access to primal earth elemental would also soften the blow.
Pre-popping Astral Shift with rogues is a guessing game and one no one enjoys, but there are other classes that don’t have ways out of their initial stun either.
Earth Shield and Earthen Harmony are great options if you are against rogues in arena as the survivability helps you outlive their burst and allow you to dump yours on them. Also, running the physical immunity pvp talent can also help though it won’t block their shadow dmg and poisons.
Like others have alluded to, the balance for shadow lands has been incredibly rough around the edges. Things like rogue, ret, fire mage often seem overtuned due to their legendaries feeling more impactful:. Rogue crit bonus, ret and mage dispel protection that cover up an otherwise big weakness to their kits, especially when facing shaman.