Trans Women ARE Women

Community General Discussion
519

OK lets not use average people then. Lets use Olympians. Their measurements are generally written on wiki pages etc too so we can actually get them if you want. Average height of male Olympic sprinters vs female Olympic sprinters? Are you really trying to claim that there isnt going to be a significant difference between the two?
Same for weight etc.
Same for all codes of sport.

Trans people are a small minority so of course there are not many top tier athletes which is in itself a small population (elite athlete) so you are talking about a small population within a small population.

Thank you for bringing this up.
Have any female to male trans people gone on to dominate mens sport? I dont know of any. Further demonstrating my point that male bodies are more suited to high performance sport than female bodies. You accidentally made my point.

No I havnt. You are the one saying that men arnt taller than women…

(once again I will remind anyone reading this that false flagging is against tos and I have not broken any tos in this post)

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520

I take your argument and raise you a rebuke.

BTW, Hubbard has been on E for over a decade, since 2012. This wasn’t a case of start estrogen and immediately qualify for the Olympics.

521

It’s funny you mention this OP,

Thing is I was close to a transgender person once, funny thing is that when I dated other people later they were asking me all kinds of questions about it, it was most unusual considering I’ve dated more cis people then trans people, and I do admit that being questioned about that one transgender person I found such questioning borderline homophobic.

522

And do you have her record of lifting from when she competed as a man previously? Because she was far less successful then…

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523

How did they know in the first place? I don’t think I’ve ever told anyone what gender I dated prior to them. It seems like a very private conversation that violates the other person’s privacy.

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524

You’re missing my main point, the fact is that Athletes currently do not operate under the assumption of ‘normal’ levels of really anything, and that includes hormones but you supposedly want to pre-emptively get rid of trans women from sports as a result of a few out-liers on the basis that they are trans women and nothing else. You haven’t tried to argue against certain levels of ‘body mass’ or anything else, you entirely went at the point of them being trans women.

You know, were you not arguing in another thread about how one shouldn’t change things as a result of the minority?

A couple, yes. Much like trans women. But on AVERAGE trans athletes actually don’t end up ‘dominating a sport’. But your side tends to absolutely ignore trans men, you accidentally made my point.

You’d be incorrect, especially depending on the sport especially relating to things like Endurance.

2 years of hormone therapy basically close the gap, if you look at the studies for trans athletes.

I never said that, so looks like you’re being

If you really want sports to be ‘fair’ then shouldn’t there be height limits, bone density limits, mass limits, hormone limits (apparently throughout their whole life, or their ‘natural’ levels to be restricted down? Since you don’t like transgender athletes adhering to the correct hormone levels to compete.)

Should someone that’s 5’5" in a strength competition have to compete against someone that’s 6’8" and outweighs them by 200 pounds like in the ‘strong man’ competitions?

Curiously you, and the critics are not arguing for any of that but instead point at the ENTIRETY of trans women athletes and how it shouldn’t be allowed.

525

Do you have those records?

Do you have proof that she magically became an Olympic class athlete entirely due to transition and not at all due to practice and training, or genetics?

You know what I think is funny, when I was growing up as an AFAB person, I was told that I could do anything a boy could do.

Except sports apparently.

What’s next, segregating kids by gender at school and banning transwomen from women’s math because they have an unfair advantage?

526

Some people have a way of being so nosy but in a way that makes you trust them enough to open up and babble stuff.

527

Posting in a Talonel bait thread.

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528

Lets get rid of all categories then and just have the best athletes compete regardless of gender then if it doesn’t make a difference. Everyone in 1 category. That’s fair right? 1 set of rules for everyone.
Would you agree with that?

Ill thank you to not put words in my mouth. I didn’t say I wanted to stop trans people competing in sport. I said that anyone who doesn’t admit that there is a biological advantage to spending 20 years developing as a man is not being intellectually honest and I am right.

Yes because race to world first loot systems and trans people competing at the Olympics are totally the same thing…

Who?

So women out perform men in marathon or ultra marathons etc? Is that what you are claiming?

Didnt say that anywhere

Thats why there are weight divisions… They already exist.

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529

There is a big difference between “these people are different heights” and “these people have different chromosome counts”. Deny it all you want and relish in women getting beaten up by “men” if that’s your equality then I guess.

Just look at the differences you mentioned as genetic advantages, males on average have higher bone density, are taller, produce more testosterone and have greater muscle building potential. And you want them to compete against women in physical sports?

There is a reason there is a male and female catagory of world records, and do you want to guess which one is typically (possibly always) the better record?

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530

If you really want to go that route, don’t separate by gender and instead separate by other qualifiers that actually determine strength, endurance, and so forth. Like previously mentioned bone length, density, hormone levels. Which would probably end up having to restrict quite a few people that are currently competing.

Oh, I didn’t. That is something you keep going towards.

Not from the studies available, 2 years after hormone therapy.

There are 3 I can think of. Lets see if you can research the field correctly, go digging. You haven’t cited any of your stuff so far despite articles being linked.

In ultra-endurance events, that indeed can be the case.

It was implied as a result of you saying it’s ‘unfair’ for trans women to compete.

I was referring to the ‘strong man’ competitions, and who gets awarded with ‘strongest man’. What name pops into your head specifically for recent events? Are they 5’5"?

Weight divisions are only in some sports, and not others curiously.

You’re right, height plays a much bigger factor in a lot of fields than anything else yet that’s not controlled for.

Let me know when any athlete has ‘average’ of all of those. (They don’t)

When getting into sports, or athletics they don’t control for ANY of that for any of their divisions or groups do they? They do not.

You’re not arguing for ‘fair sports’ or anything of the sort, you’re just arguing for excluding trans women.

531

Honestly I would just like to see the outcry if they decided to have a “trans” category where all trans identifying people could compete.

I bet there would just be absolutely endless amounts of vitriol about it being unfair and this and that, and then on the other side arguing it’s fair to put biological males against females lol.

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532

Gavin Hubbard competed at a national level as a junior and Laurel Hubbard won her first international appearance by 19 kgs. Which is a full 7% more than the silver at 35 years of age after not competing for a number of years. That isnt normal for a woman to compete all of a sudden at 35 after not competing for years and go form a national level competitor to an international winner by 19 kgs.

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533

This thread is such a mess.
Yall are now arguing about sports XD

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534

I dont but it seems you do since you are wanting biological men to compete against biological women.

You are making the claim so Ill wait for you to post something.

https://www.angelfire.com/electronic/ultramentor/records_running.html
Awkward

30 miles.
Fastest woman = 3:12
Fastest man = 2:42
Thats a half hour difference

1000 miles
Fastest woman =13d 1:54
Fastest man = 11d 13:54
That’s a day and a half difference

I have full respect for mens and womens sports but they are not the same and pretending they are is silly. Idk what the solution to trans participation is but it isnt to let them compete against biological females.

(again nothing here is tos although I expect to get false flagged and I would like to remind anyone reading this that it is against tos to false flag posts)

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535

Rather than male/female categories, perhaps categories by chromosome count?
I recall a weightlifter, competing in a bench-press competition, in the 155 lb.? category. They won. The thing is, they had no legs, their legs had been amputated. Lost them during military service. It wasn’t right, but I wouldn’t want to be the one to tell them they couldn’t compete.

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536

Did something happen earlier that got flagged?

537

i am doubtful helping was the intent of OP’s post.

all I can say is you now have a supreme court justice that answers ‘what is a woman’ with I am not a biologist…

538

Call it a hunch. Its coming…