That’s almost the entire month’s amount for 2 pieces that are the same.
In this same month we have a full unique armor set for 850.
What started out as a cool fun system in the game to unlock unique interesting cosmetics, mounts, and pets… is starting to feel more like a gotcha game system.
Nothing about the trading post is “free” so don’t come at me with that silliness. WoW is a subscription base game with box prices for expansions. Everything on the trading post we’ve already paid for, and could be introduced into the game anyway the dev’s choose.
Tendor could be increased or decreased at a whim, bundles could be added (which the Troll Witchdoctor Transmog should be a bundle)…
The down and dirty is that the Trading post now looks more like a marketing gimmick designed to create an artificial value system on the cosmetics being created in the minds of the players than a cool bonus reward system…
As the inflation in the Trading post goes up… expect more shop cosmetics to go up in price as well…
This feature that in a grand scheme of things, is comparatively minor to your raids, world quests, dungeons, pvp and so on. Or even Mogging and character customization.
It’s one thing to criticize the trading post on what it did poorly, as it does some things poorly. The cap being one of those for example.
It’s another to make a prediction about the trading post with nothing to go on that gives it that idea to go on. Even if one of the prediction of selling tendies on shop is true later down on the line, even only in convoluted ways Blizzard likes to do in-order to be stall the people from calling them out. (Which isn’t the first time they did it.)
But when your criticism relies on a particular argument like “This is a sub based game”, while turning around and just ignoring literally everything else this argument applies to, and given how often we get content from blizzard from patch by patch…
just smacks me of bad faith arguing here and it just comes off forced and hypocritical honestly.
This isn’t to mention that free in this context refers to “getting this feature at no extra cost or additional payment required” here. Something i think we all know what these people meant by the word “free”. To simply put, using or having trading post at all costs us the same as a raid, BG, world quest, or any other feature of the game has costed us: none extra. And just about as optional, if not less interactive then others.
Oh, and should i even mention the fact you get WAY MORE stuff out of it then paying for 6 months for $80?.. or Paying extra $40 for the epic edition of expansions on top of the existing $40 to $50 + Sub fees??.. All before tax? Yet this minor feature is the one you don’t think it’s free, despite the fact it doesn’t actually cost anybody extra (Sub fees are not extra) for it to exist and continue too?.. …Also by the same community who likes anything free or think you’re not allowed to criticize anything because they think it being free means it’s free from criticism?..
Bottom line: you’re talking down on something that has been normal for the game for like ages in terms of introducing and maintaining features. So until the day i see you apply this to raids, dungeons, pvp, world quests, literally everything, this argument of “This is a sub based game, it’s not free” holds no water at all.
And yet you forget that these are heritage armor-based designs (likely), which should be available to the player base all the time and fulfill the race fantasy. OP is correct though. For a sub-based game, Blizzard does a horrible job regarding player requests and race fantasies (!).
I like that it incentivizes engagement in content but lets be real; general public will just go the fastest route to get X thing.
That said I do agree, these cosmetics for a game you are actively paying for should be put into the game. Say the troll shield and copycat back piece could have you go to zandalar or somewhere troll-like to do some thing there to get it. The dinner party, evening masquerade stuff would have you go into Karazhan to do something in the dining area of the place to get the mogs.
None of the ideas will be used and things will only get more monetized years down the road so pointless for me to write my ideas lol
Guess I’m just bored
Trading post currency limit will increase but with that, so will prices of the items and amount of items so it will just cancel itself out in a way for some people
Thing is, it was always a set up for said gotcha type system. A retention, a pull to get you wanting to get 'em all… type design. There is nothing fun about it, and you sure ain’t unlocking anything. It is merely a reward for doing some listed thing that already exists in the game that offers trader tenders for doing said thing and you go buy said item.
What they do later with the whole thing is predictable but it is what it is; enough people engage and like it for the company to continue on the way it is…
This doesn’t mean you (general you) should have hypocritical double standards though.
You can criticize something without making a contradiction…
If he’s talking about all the features in the game, he would be. But he’s not doing that and only talking about one feature, so i objectively disagree.
…How is it exactly a problem with blizzard to not fulfill player requests when… that has been a thing since the game first started?..
…They are in the game. The trading post vendor is just a gloried vendor and they can only be obtained though ingame…
If anything, it’s more ingame then the shop…
I don’t get the whole forced dislike about this feature when it first started off. With wild predictions on what will it be, and calling it when it’s clearly not… Even as a login per month bonus, it’s not half bad, and it incentivizes (not force) you to keep playing. In a similar way it does with every other content like raids or world quests or etc in this game. I mean, the game does this anyways since vanilla, so this isn’t something that should come as a surprise with anybody at this point.
The only dislike i get is the fact that awhile ago, Blizzard started putting tendies in bundles, effectively selling them. And i really do don’t care for the techincalites that makes it “totally different guys” or it’s not this because it’s this that and the other or shouldn’t be counted by what Blizzard or Blizzard fanboys say (the latter which, are same guys who defended lootboxes, are hypocritically complaining about battlepasses, when they effectively asked for it by defending lootboxes, so great going. ) , that crap just ruins an otherwise cool feature.
No offense, but that should have been pretty clear to everyone from the start. It’s a method to keep players tied to their subscription, so they buy things from the Trading Post every month.
Are you saying that if I don’t criticize “Raids, Dungeons, WQ, etc…” that I’m not aloud to criticize the Trading post? That’s kinda absurd.
Furthermore, I chose to point out the subscription based game to draw the understanding that this isn’t a “free to play” model in which all the features are then billed out individually. It’s a subscription based model in which I gain access to content through a contract with the company.
I think this is a big assumption on your part here. There are many people who try to say we can’t criticize the Trading Post as a system because it’s just a free “bonus” to content. There is no such thing as free bonus when you pay for said product, whether through subscription or direct billing. Marketing 101 here, if you can convince them they’re getting more value out of a product, their less likely to have reserves about purchasing the product.
Are you trying to make the argument that when I have to pay more money for the box expansion offer, that I’m getting “bonus content” on top of my subscription cost? Or that by getting a discount on the sub by helping a corporation with guarantied billing over the next year by paying in advance is “free” content to me? Or are you saying that Blizzard is providing me “WAY MORE” product than I’m paying for? I’d like to see how you would lay that out. Like how do you calculate the value of a single coded armor set? How do you tell the difference between the set you paid for versus the set Blizzard gave you as a “bonus”?
This seems like the argument that you’re making. It seems like your saying because you think it’s “free” content, that I can’t criticize the system.
The fundamental issue I have is that nothing in WoW is Free, (except maybe the 20 level trial started edition.) So don’t pretend that Blizzard is giving us something for nothing when we laterally pay them to design interesting and engaging content.
Yes, Blizzard has a problem with introducing content and systems that could be fun and engaging, and then due to poor marketing or design decisions ruin it. That is what I’m saying about the Trading post.
I agree, I like the concept for rewarding players to show up and do stuff. I don’t think that players only do the bare minimum though. Lot’s of my guildies started doing legacy stuff, world stuff and even PvP to fill out the reward bar.
I don’t think there’s anything wrong with this necessarily, but I think at this rate it feels less like a cool way to reward players, and more like a way to justify selling Tendies on the Shop. Either that or scrap it since the player base didn’t seem to thrilled about the Tendies on the shop.
When your criticism relies on a particular argument like “This is a sub based game”, it relies on you being principled and consistent with it.
I’ve never heard that with raids, dungeons, WQ’s, or even pet battles, or etc. If anything, it’s never bought up while criticizing them. Yet plenty of times with Trading Post.
Any MMO these days has a similar system in place to WoW’s Trading Post.
That is an actual fact. You didn’t pay anything extra for the trading post to happen. In the same way you don’t pay extra for raids to happen. Subs are not extra fees, their the mandatory fees. and trading post is part of the content you pay via by subs.
And like i’ve told somebody else here, you can criticize something without contradicting yourself. This “This is a sub based game” didn’t need to be a part of the conversation and it would’ve been better without it, because then you wouldn’t set the expectation that you would be consistent with other features of the game.
Nobody is saying or implying you can’t criticize it at all. Infact, i’ve criticized it at the very beginning, despite the fact i did loved it at the time. I’l link it at the end cause this comment is a touch long here.
Do you pay extra for raids?
Do you pay extra for dungeons?
Do you pay extra for quests?
Do you pay more then $15 a month for any of that? Hell, you can actually pay less or none at all to get access to these things.
…What makes trading post so special that it’s exempt from all of these things above that?
What is it about trading post that makes you think you’re paying more money then what you are paying with your sub fee here?..
Think here for a second. You pay $40 + $50 if you didn’t get the expansion for 4 to 6 items at a time, when that can be done without paying for a new expansion or expansion upgrade, and that’s looking a trading post at it’s worst here.
Which one would you go for?.. $15 for 4 -6 items, or $14+potentionally $90 for the same amount?
Again, which one would you go for? 4 to 8 items, or spending nearly $90 for just one item?
If we are gonna argue value and worth here, it would be important to know what you’re getting out of from which one here.
Ya know, i don’t imagine you getting upset that you get more items then you pay for, so imagine you’re thinking this isn’t true.
To that i will say… refer to what i’ve said above about the things we get from 6 months, vs epic versions, vs trading post.
And really, what trading post does, really isn’t the sort of thing that new to the game, what with the dailies and such and earning tokens to buy things existing for like awhile now. It’s only new because their doing it gamewide. Hence why i call Trading post, glorified vendors.
You can easily tell the different if something requires you to pay more then what you are currently paying with your sub.
So tell me, did i need to pay anything extra with trading post, or not?
Nope. That’s the agrument that community made to defend the $80 6 month subs. I’m not even kidding, look it up.
Again, where i’ve said you can’t criticize it at all? You’re confusing what i’m saying here and taking it to unreasonable extreme here. I’m simply telling you to not contradict yourself.
Which is why i refer to “paying extra”.
Point to me where we are paying extra for trading post. Because that’s basically your argument here. You’re essentially implying that were paying more then $15 to have this, when the price haven’t even changed for us, or in some cases, lower or none at all thanks to WoW tokens.
Nobody is saying WoW is free… Obviously you have to pay for your sub in order to access it to begin with.
My point is, trading post is part of the sub fee, in the similar fashion how WoW classic is even part of the Sub fee. It alone hasn’t raised or lower the cost for you. That can be done though other means…
Also “Fun, Interesting and engaging” are subjective.
Like with Garrisons. Or Artifacts. Or Mission tables in SL. Or Anima farming. Or Pathfinder. Or Timewalking. Or even some raids and dungeons and BG’s. This argument you’ve presented initially needs to apply to all because… you’re paying the same sub fee for all of this…
And like i’ve said or eluded to, and sadly will be still misinterpretered despite putting it so dead simple, i’m surprised i’m not on PBS kids teaching kids about 1 2 3 and getting paid 100K for it… Actually, that would be better, but i digress…
You can criticize the quality of something, without contradicting yourself…
Let’s use me for example…
Now note that i’ve touched upon teh quality of the feature here, and despite the fact i love it (or used too until i realized they are selling bundles here), there are a few problems that should be addressed.
Max Cap in particular here, can also be a complaint of things being overpriced. Because you have so limited resources to work with and you hit that cap real fast, that’s it for the month, no more. And with Blizzard raising the prices with the exception that people will not spend prior, that’s just asking clairvoyance on something we would never know until 2 days before next month. Have they have next month’s roadmap on the start of the month, this would mitigate this issue a touch, but we still have the issue of expensive items. Which also where’s my “there should be more activities” complaint come into play as a sort of solver for that.
And…
I also touched upon the fact that Trading Post isn’t exactly a new idea. Even touched on it’s not a new idea for WoW, other then being gamewide and with a fancier UI.
Everything in the Trader Shop should be about 30% less than what the costs are right now. I’m not a collector and I don’t sweat about cosmetics, but the system they have right now sucks.
The completion reward should always either be a mount or a full transmog for all races and classes. Not a wrist watch. Not a sword. Not a pet.
The selection should follow a consistent format. Each month, have one new mount to buy, one old. One new pet, one old. They just have it so random so people can’t plan around it in any way, and it doesn’t feel good for the collectors.
Cost, final reward, and selection type consistency. I think that would make it better.
You’re asking too much from these developers. They can’t even update the races properly and it took them almost 20 years to add racial weapons for the Night Elves, which will finally be available to the players in the next patch.
So I get it now, You have misunderstood my argument. I’m not saying that the Trading Post has cost us extra. I literally said we paid for it with our subscription.
My concern is that the design of it is built on a predatory system. We can actually see where they have put items from the trading post in the game shop (a way to literally get people to pay more for tendies in an indirect way.)
Yes, this is my point too, and I want it to stay that way, hence why I am criticizing the way they are inflating item value, and reducing tendies value.
The way you’re framing this, is you’re making it seem like it’s a bad thing here…
I still don’t know how it’s bad?.. I mean the concept of Trading post itself here?..
For the time it was launched, it just looked like a glorified vendor with glorified dailies… Two things that aren’t typically viewed upon as predatory in this game and still isn’t…
Unless you’re talking about bundles that sells the tendies along side with other things, which, yeah, obviously that’s bad… Which also applicable to WoW Tokens with gold. And Worse then.
No.
We can use today’s evidence to make a prediction, but predictions are not correct until it’s a reality.
Nobody who predicted the bundles with tendies happening, actually knew about it before hand, or going off any actual evidence that was already pre-existing in the game. Their predictions might as well be a wild guess. And in this day and age, wild guesses don’t fly with those who wants results.
I don’t exactly know what you mean by “inflating” here, unless you’re referring to the items being expensive.
Dude, you have missed my point completely. It’s not the concept of the Trading Post, but the implementation of gotcha game style inflation and scarcity tactics to incentivize spending real money on top of our subscription fee.
When I read your actual criticism of the Trading Post, you agree with me.
Correct, it is presented as a vendor w/ dailies like other systems. Then we get bundles on the shop that are “limited” (creating a sense of Fomo) and if you buy them with real money, you can effectively save “Tendor”
Hence my argument… a marketing strategy designed to seem like its “bonus” content, when we already paid for it with our sub.
None of what I’ve said is inconsistant.
And because you really can’t seem to let it go, Raiding, Dungeons, WQ’s, Classic, or any other feature that is part of the game we pay for, is IRRELEVANT to my criticisms of the Trading Post as a system Blizzard is using to exploit players. If Blizzard were designing any of those systems to “trick” consumers into false understanding of product value in order to make more money, I would be criticizing them too…
They didn’t need to “know” before hand that the Tendies would end up in bundles, because they’ve seen the strategy deployed in other gotcha games. Do you not understand how observing a system helps you recognize it when deployed in other areas.
This is simple marketing strategy. They weren’t “wild guesses” they were practical and logical predictions based on understanding marketing and experience with the gotcha game model. You even pointed out how other games have deployed similar systems… and I would be willing to bet some of those systems are predatory like I’m saying here.
yes that’s exactly what “inflating” means in this context. Making the item expensive in order to reduce the value of the currency. Couple that with the “limited” time items are on the trading post, and the availability of items purchasable with cash on the shop… and bingo you have the gotcha game monetization model.
In summery:
Trading Post = good when its a fun/rewarding system included as part of my subscription based fee and presents items reasonably.
Trading Post = bad when used as a slimy marketing scheme to try and incentivize consumers to spend additional money on a game they already pay for.
And since evidence is king, we already know they are trying this because we have seen “tendies” sold directly in bundles (called a “bonus” for spending real dollars on digital items, but calculated in the cost by Blizzard) and indirectly when Trading Post items are sold for a limited time for real money on shop (effectively creating the illusion of “saving” tendies when you’re actually paying more for content.)
Baridorielor, I appreciate your passion, I do. I feel like you actually agree with me, but have somehow confused my position. In 1 or 2 concise sentences, can you try to steel man what it is you think I’m saying?
Okay, so… you’re just freaking out over the possiblity of what will it become and not the reality of it… Which isn’t helpful…
Only on some, i don’t agree with it being a battle pass because i yet to find anything that proves that concern. And still can’t.
The same can be said for WoW tokens… Which i’ve said here…
…So … you’re upset at their advertising?
It is relevant, because you are talking about paying with out sub here.
It’s either all relevant, or none of it is relevant. No double standards or inconsistency, because that’s simply being disingenious with your argument here. Especially since as we’ve established that Trading post is no different from dailies and vendors in this game. And more or less has been effected by MTX sadly like everything else.
So there isn’t a need to make an exception with this…
Explain any of this.
What false understanding here?..
How much money they are making right now off of Trading Post with just our sub?
Yes they do, because it what gives them the credibility. These are just essentially rumors with no bases in reality.
Listen to them try to predict things with absolutely nothing to go on, is akin to a homeless person stopping me on the street, just to tell me the aliens are coming to take over the world. I’l believe it when i actually see it.
Not really because Blizzard is oddly slow to implement these things into WoW. It took like 10 years to be able to buy gold. Meanwhile in Overwatch, which might as well be called “Overspend”, came out with lootboxes… and… No form of lootboxes were in WoW that is buyable like Overwatch… Let alone battle pass…
You can’t just make wild guesses and expect people to take you seriously. It would make you no better then the doomsayers who say that “WOW will be in maintenance mode in a year or two, WOW IS DEAD!!!” and… in a year or two, it’s still playable.
On that note, why don’t people just… idk, learn to walk away from a video game they dislike?..
I’m… Sorry, what?..
You mean these?
Saints Row, Far Cry, Need for Speed, and The Sims are single-player games… and don’t often have microtransactions. Infact, even if they do, they don’t have them tied to the challenge things… I’ve pointed them out, because how they are structurally set up in concept. Not in monetization.
The only game that is predatory is Overwatch, and even THEN i’m not talking about it’s monetization aspect in that thread, but what it does conceptually with it’s challenges…
Did you actually read my thread?..
…oooooooooo…kay…
These items come back…
This is still a basic feature of the game.
I can still play the game, get rewarded with tokens to spend and buy something from a trading post without buying anything extra with irl money. I don’t see what’s “Gotcha” about a basic feature in the game you only pay with your sub.
How do you know their trying this for absolutely certain? It just sounds like your claiming to trying to read minds here and hyperfocused on making sure that’s right without checking to see if it is, instead of at best, making a reasonable prediction and just leaving it at that.
This is why i just wait and see.
…It doesn’t take passion to correct you…
Though, i guess smart people would consider correcting incorrect things their passion so… ehh.
Feeling is subjective, because i mostly and i in some parts of my older thread, objectively disagree with your idea of this post here, given the only argument it has to stand on. the “You’re paying for the game’s sub”, and the idea you’re trying to get across that we are somebody paying more when the cost never changed since TP introduced…
You’re acting like (Not saying you said it) the Trading post is Pay 2 Win or something, and thinking it being on the sub is a bad thing when you fail to realize so many other things are on that sub.
Hence my first comment rebuking that argument, which was the only thing that was holding your OP together given it sounds (not says) no different in tactic of how people scream “Pay 2 WIN!!!”, in using emotion rather then logic.
Even with the bundles, Trading post is no more or less different from cosmetic mounts, pets and mogs in a Cash Shop. If it’s not gotcha there, it’s not gotcha here either…
) , that crap just ruins an otherwise cool feature.
