If the queue times were a min or two for DPS there wouldn’t be nearly as much toxicity. I don’t think people would care as much about bad plays from their team mates or losing when they play good if they could just hop on another game in a matter of couple minutes.
I think having to wait 25-45 mins per game already puts a lot of the DPS in an agitative mode even before the games begin.
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I just wish they’d call solo shuffle a failed experiment and delete it.
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Too many new Duelist-Elite FoTM DPS would fight, saying how amazing it is.
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Toxicity is specific to the player and their control over themselves. Blaming anything but themselves is what’s toxic. I understand the agitation but taking it out on others is no excuse period. Take responsibility for your action instead of blaming everyone else for it. You have control over your own actions. If that is a problem perhaps you need to seek help in the real world.
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Solo Shuffle is the perfect training ground for future LFG Gladiators.
You should want them to do everything possible to improve on it, and at the same time make the rewards for traditional 2v2 and 3v3 appealing as well.
If you think SSF is more toxic than LFG was, you either have the memory of a goldfish, or you’ve never actually joined an arena group via LFG.
At least with the hour long SSF queue, you can tab into Factorio while you wait, instead of refreshing LFG every 3 seconds and having to wait for acceptable applicants, only to have them leave after the first loss.
I haven’t noticed very consistent toxicity in SSF. If you find yourself in the middle of it fairly often, then I’d suggest you look in the mirror as opposed to pointing fingers or looking for excuses.
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I disagree. I rarely have had bad LFG experiences with regards to toxicity, and have spent more time in solo shuffle queues than lfg. Thats across almost every spec/role/rating.
Solo queue game modes are often abused by people who are toxic and refuse to examine their own accountability and would rather blame teammates than try to improve themselves.
Exactly this.
Nah, it’s very easy to hit 1800, compared to 2v2 or 3v3 that you have to face gladiator mount users when you reach 1500.
I’m bad at pvp, let me have nice transmogs too D:
Solo shuffle is not perfect. Queue times and leaver issues for sure. They need to continue working on it
But to act like LFG wasnt worse is 1000% percent incorrect. Hardstuck 1600 people with “glad exp lf same” who then proceed to play like idiots, rage, and leave after a single loss.
Toxicity comes from a disconnect of ego and results. And boy is the wow pvper ego fudging massive
We have a tool for solo queue like every other PvP game has had for 10 years. Blizzard is just behind in getting things right these days
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I disagree. Overwatch is a good example where solo queue works rather well. Or course there is occasional troll who is super toxic but outside of that there isn’t much toxicity.
I am really convinced that if RSS queue times were similar to OW for DPS (1-3 mins) there would be a whole a lot less toxicity in general.
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Most of the toxicity I have seen has been from healers and they have instant queues. I can’t tell you how many I have seen raging in chat at everyone while going 0-6 or 1-5 lol. Some dps rage too for sure, but mostly I have seen healers.
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But that’s just not a feasible thing.
Youre comparing apples and oranges for so many reasons.
Anyone can pick up, play, and switch between any hero in OW at any point in time. Thats not true for wow. There’s a fairly significant investment in leveling, learning, gearing and playing a character. I dont want to get murked down in the weeds of this too much, but in general wow is an rpg and VERY different from mobas/shooters.
Also, in arenas, the game is over when someone dies. There isnt an additional objective, there isnt a respawn. You just lose at a significant mistake or if you get outplayed. Because of that, it’s often more frustrating when someone dies (or isnt supported by their team).
Further, there wont be short dps queue times realistically ever because there are fewer healers. There are fewer healers because at almost every level they have significantly more responsibility and are more likely to be blamed or flamed for a loss.
A dps can make 100 mistakes and not win a game, but a healer can make a single mistake (and more often than not its the dps forcing the “mistake” by the healer through positioning or poor cd/cc usage) and instantly lose the game.
That wont change with how wow arena is set up.
That being said, i dont think ive ever had a situation i couldnt improve by using effective communication that has made a queue session more positive, even if it didnt go as well as everyone hoped.
Toxicity is a byproduct of long queue times → long queues times are a byproduct of PVP Healing sucking → PVP Healing sucking is a byproduct of DPS whining about Healers for many xpacs. So, what’s the lesson here?
Be careful what you wish for - you just might get it.
PvP healing sucks because its not fun. Healing in general is not fun period. Blizzard, especially WoW team failing here big time.
This has nothing to do with the genre. I get that if you are talking about PvE and gearing etc. Also this excuse of “but WoW is an mmrpg” doesn’t fly anymore. Look at GW2, its an mmorpg and does pvp really well. In addition, even in PvE there is a shortage of healers. There is a reason people don’t like playing healers because its simply is not fun and not deigned in a way that attracts players. No amount of incentive is gonna fix this.
There is absolutely no excuse in my mind to not learn from OW team and improve WoW support/healer gameplay. I guess the only reason could be that WoW Devs are mainly PvE people and they dislike PvP in general.
Thats not true at all. It absolutely does. If you have to level and gear a character, you cant just swap and learn a new one without investment.
You mention gw2, and its similar there as well. Except gw2 doesnt have healers and you can make a pvp only char, which you cant in wow. Gw2 also has an even lower pvp playerbase than wow relative to its population (i play gw2 a lot, actually)
There are definitely fewer healers than damage dealers for sure, but whats your solution for that? Because its something thats been historically true in pretty much every game mode. And more often than not it comes down to people not wanting the responsibility of keeping other players alive and for the exact reasons i mentioned.
Ya and thats fine, but theres no solution in your mind either.
It allows people to just log on and que. No dealing with LFG, or having to be on at a certain “active” time. For that alone I do think it’s kinda amazing.
That being said, I’m pretty close to being a 1st time elite FOTM dps so what do i know? Heh…
Toxicity is byproduct of anonymity from the internet.
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It’s only easy by comparison because SS killed the regular bracket.
There are quite a few actually; What it comes down to are the changes needed in UI for healers, leveraging more smart heals and get rid of this playing the Unit Frames game…
- I heal most of the time but I found that around 2k is when the games get too stressful for me to heal in solo shuffle. Lack of coordination and fast pace of games eventually leads to frustration.
- I don’t want to always heal as I also like playing alts that are DPS but having a way to send honor/conquest to my alts would definitely make me queue more to gear them up.
- There needs to be a priority queue system account wide for players who queue solo shuffle as healers. This system should give the account priority queue when the player switch from playing a healer to dps class at a rate of 6 rounds won as a healer = 1 Priority Que for DPS spec/alt. There should also be a minimum Healer rating requirement of 1200-1500 to prevent people from trying to abuse priority queue.
- Obvious one but offer more incentives like gold, material, randomly drawn transmog items from old raids, etc.
- There should be a better balance amongst healers to make sure mana efficiency, throughput and utility are balanced as much as possible across all specs.
- Having a positive win record for any given game (4-2, 5-1, 6-0) should give some rating and never result in 0 rating gain. The gain can be small like 5 pts but should never be 0
- Incentives as short term solution would work but eventually what the game needs are new healers. People who play mainly as dps but would like to try healing as well.
- Mid to long term healing in pvp needs a more drastic solution. I am talking about the realm of smart heals. It needs to be easier in general to attract players who haven’t tried out healing before.
- There needs to be a UI overhaul with healing as well. Maybe smart heals would solve this to an extend but far too much time is spent staring at unit frames then actually playing the game
And here are some great insights from Manfighting