Toxicity in M+ (or lack thereof in my case)

Community General Discussion
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I try to take an objective viewpoint on this matter wherever I can, but as someone that has exclusively pugged mythic+ since its inception, I have not encountered the level of toxicity that GD claims exists. Now, I won’t claim that it doesn’t exist simply because I don’t observe it, I could just be very lucky, however I do think there are ways that the community (especially those of us that PUG) can combat bad experiences. The solution, I believe, starts with us, the player.

We need to rid ourselves of the mindset that groups are toxic for not wanting to invite you. People value their time and progress in this game, and they probably don’t want to have it wasted. Given the nature of LFG, there really isn’t a whole lot you can go off of to tell if your group will succeed, other than your IO and how META your class is. This sucks, but it’s understandable. The solution to this, is to build your own community and friends. Yes, that takes a lot of time and effort, but your only alternative is a very shallow system that can only judge you based on your IO score and your class. It is what it is.

You should hold yourself far more accountable for your bad performance in dungeons, and acknowledge that you should improve before attempting higher-level keys. I have seen numerous incidents (especially last season), where we finished 14+ keys with 2 DPS carrying. This is probably fine if you’re friends with everyone in the group, however it seems to lead to a lot of frustration, which I can’t help but think carries over to future interactions. I pugged KSM last season as an Affliction Warlock, and the most consistent comment that I received was something along the lines of “wow, I haven’t played with a good Affliction Warlock before”, this is sad, but probably explains why I had such a hard time getting into groups. It’s very easy to blame a toxic group, however, it seems that in this case it was probably the vast majority of underperforming Affliction Warlocks that were the source of my frustration.

Understand what you need to bring to the table. Tanks are expected to know routes, healers are expected to heal, and DPS are expected to make things die. If you’re consistently putting out 4k DPS by the time the run is over, you’re really not ready for higher level keys. Yes, I understand that different classes and specs perform well in certain areas, however, if your DPS is substantially low, it probably means that you’re not performing as well as you can be. From my experience, and I would love some input from more experienced players, is that 6k-7k DPS per class is probably what is required to time 15 keys. You should probably work towards numbers like this before you queue up for higher 14+ keys.

Learning, working hard, and trying to play your best is simply being courteous to other players. Whenever I perform poorly, I always apologize at the end of the run and thank people for their patience with me. In my experience, it has always been met with “all good” or something along those lines. Perhaps it’s that attitude that has resulted in my overall positive experience of mythic+.

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Play tank and within a week you will see where all the toxicity is focused. While yes in high keys tanks should be expected to know routes but that attitude gets trickled down to low keys. You will see even in +2-5 keys tanks getting flamed for not knowing routes/snapping etc. Imagine being a newer player that wants to try something harder than a m0 and dip their toes into mythic plus and getting spammed by their group with things like “noob tank” or people just leaving group even if the run is going relatively smoothly. Its why you hear all the time about players trying mythic plus once or twice and then never doing it again because of groups like that.

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I pug all of my runs too (as a healer). Like the OP, its very rare for me to see toxic behavior. Yes, it exists, but not nearly to the extent that the forums would have you believe,

I obviously can’t prove it, but I have long suspected that the people who complain the most about toxic behavior are probably complicit in creating an environment for it to germinate and grow - either by a snide comment, or lack of cooperation, or what have you.

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Yup, none of these people have tanked a day in their life and don’t understand where the toxicity is focused.

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You’re going to get a skewed perspective here because it’s mostly a place where people come to complain. You’ll almost never see people coming here to say everything’s great, or they just had a really good Spires run. It’s just the nature of the beast. :woman_shrugging:

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I can tell you as a tank that M+ sucks, you have no idea how many of my friends I ask to tank, and they don’t want the “responsibility” of it. But, they’re okay pulling crappy numbers.

Or, the players who tell you how to do your route, and their not the tank, or the players who want you to do a specific route, and they kick you out of the group because it’s not their route. I’ve seen it all, been on the receiving end of toxic behavior and have been apart of it aswell.

It’s hard not being toxic when there are so many players who I know are frustrated with past experiences with other players ruining their keys. Or, being the tank looking at the damage meter, or healing meter seeing why packs are dying slowly, or players aren’t getting healed.

All in all, pugs suck. My friends are gone, and pugging is my only alternative to enjoy this game now.

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I already do over 5k in the gear I’m using and can’t get into a mythic 0.

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i get into good groups all the time, but the bad groups are more memorable than the good, imo.

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I really find this hard to believe. Im been running 0’s for the weekly on my 213 ilvl DH, haven’t had to spend more than 10 mins looking for each group.

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Oh yeah. I did 12 keys this week in my resto shaman (10s and 11s mostly). And out of all of them, the one I remember best is where the WW monk raged and abandoned the group because I “wouldn’t heal him through the beam” in the first boss on Spires…

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home boy shouldn’t even be in the beam, especially as a monk with that much mobility. what a moron.

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The toxicity in M+ is because the game allow players who have no idea what they’re doing to join groups where people have expectations.

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Nope m+ is genuinely and factually often very toxic largely due to burnout bliz design that puts lots of players on edge

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Kinda like every thing else in the game, or every game that has a competitive multiplayer scene in general?

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Check if I’ve done a mythic even once buddy that’ll make you feel better I hope. Why would I bother lying about something so mundane ? Maybe DH are more wanted than fury warrior /shrug I don’t know because I’ve never gotten into one.

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The most toxic experience I’ve ever had in an M+ was when a Warlock who used to raid with my guild suckered me into running a 14 Plaguefall with three pugs he proceeded to constantly and consistently insult on a regular basis for petty stuff, going so far as to blame them for his mistakes when he ate a Margrave tendie to the face “because they made him tilted.” Said player since left the guild after calling our GM a tyrant and I feel bad that we carried his sorry backside through a CE Sire kill.

I don’t pug a large amount of keys, but all the pugs I’ve been in haven’t been toxic outside of that one, and the guy responsible for said toxicity wasn’t even a pug at all!

Treat people with respect in keys and you yourself won’t be treated with disrespect. M+ toxicity isn’t a fraction of the problem these forums pretend it is.

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Read the dungeon journal. And you can sail all the way to 10’s …small bit effort is all that is needed

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The easiest solution to the problem Isn’t to become a PHD In M+ mechanics. Most folks will write M+ off before they would burden their lives with these problems.

Although for those who do take up the educational program. They would probably get a sense of satisfaction, ego, and a set of dungeon skills. And I would like to emphasize the ego part. Have you met the M+ pushers? They are not easy to be around.

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I started gearing 3 weeks ago. LFG is what you make of it. In the beginning, I ran my key a lot. Getting into 15s meant tanking a few, too. And of course I ran with guildies and friends when possible.

Be flexible. Be outgoing. Be confident. You’ll get into groups, make friends, and maybe land in an active guild or community. MMOs are what you make them. You can’t system your way out of competition in the competitive part of the game.

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If you accept that failure Is going to be a returning friend of yours. This could work. However there Is usually the whole bag of human emotions to contend with. Including anger. And failure Is good at stoking that. Anger Is very good at stripping away a persons ability to see the bigger picture.

And not to mention that people are largely flawed and making friends or being a active part of a guild requires sacrifice and a certain level of ‘cohesion’. And that requires something I can’t say here.