We don’t care what you think
tanks have always been frowned upon in pvp, their place is best in rbgs as a flag carrier/base sitter
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I would love to give you any tips/advice I can to help improve your gameplay.
The wow community is toxic and immature. I literally get DEATH THREATS from players, people wishing harm upon my family, instantly banned on every twitch stream, spit on, removed from b tag, threats of doxing. WHY? Because im having fun playing the game…
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You probably never faced guardian in rated bgs. They don’t die unless focused by 3+ players.
Wow that is some crazy self entitlement. People pay for a Sub and should be able to enjoy Prot or any Tank in PvP. It’s one of the class roles. The game is supposed to be enjoyed by playing WHATEVER you want. It’s extremely ignorant to think PvP is not supposed to have Tanks in it. Also selfish for wanting the game to be only as you like.
If you want to play a Tanks in PvP then you have respect for yourself by doing it.
Get over yourself.
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I am aware of all of those. I’ve leveled my alt pally 0-60 as prot, and geared them up playing bg’s/arenas. It’s enough to understand the basics of the class at least.
What you linked are mostly talents and pvp talents that have to be chosen over other things, and/or huge 5 minute cooldowns that you get to use once, maybe twice in an arena matchup. In the current high dmg/burst meta, once your bubble (which all paladins get) is down, and stuff you had to talent into is down (which last a total of like 25-30s, but have 5 minute CDs), you’re dead. If you choose shield, you give up dmg, or other utility etc.
Also, you’re literally using a SHIELD as your off-hand to be able to do this, which means you lose out on damage.
I guess I could link you all of the ways other classes can “oh sh**”, or how other classes setup huge damage/healing/whatever.
Cool, you essentially linked a class.
A tank class that has to use most of its talent slots on defense/shield and loses out on a ton of damage? Say it aint so!
What I find SO disingenuous about all of this, is that ppl say it DPS’s just like a DPS (It does not), and it heals just like a healer (it does not), and pretend that bc its a tank it has some massive health pool (it does not, it has a smaller health pool than all other classes due to the 50% dmg taken) without having to use 5 MINUTE COOLDOWNS to survive. So it has an extra bubble for 8s on a multiple minute CD. What is your point? These types of DCD’s are not unique. Every class has “oh sh**” buttons, or get out of jail free cards efither passively or actively.
Let’s take one of the more popular melee DPS classes, that does massive damage output, has a higher health pool due to not taking 50% more dmg, and has huge utility with stuff like anti-healing, intervene, etc. Arms Warrior:
- Defensive Stance. 20% damage reduction. PERMANENT if talented, 1 GCD, 6s cooldown. So… a permanent wall.
- Die by the Sword. Completely negates direct physical attacks and 30% damage reduction. So, does 10% more damage reduction than ardent defender, and 100% increased parry.
- Spell Reflection. This is so OP when used right. Literally reflects the spell BACK to the caster.
- Ignore pain 50% damage reduction up to certain damage. 12s CD. 12s.
- They also have a kick/silence, fear, intervene, almost permaslow, they can break bubbles with shattering throw… sure I’m missing stuff too.
- Rallying Cry. 15% extra max health for 10s.
“Massive results”. You mean like the “massive results” that literally every other good PVP spec has? There’s a good representation of many specs on the PVP leaderboards. Prot is no different. Warriors are, though. Their ratings on average are higher, and there are many more people playing them.
I guess people playing an OP DPS spec with huge defensive CD’s and utility aren’t “scumbags” though because they don’t have a lot of self-heals that pad the statboard. They’re playing the way the game is “supposed to be played”.
Thanks for chiming in on this. The attitude in this thread is what leads to exactly what you just described. It’s absolutely disgusting.
Enjoyed watching one of your VODs, pretty intense gameplay, clear that you have very high amount of knowledge/experience in the game.
So are a lot of other classes and specs, that doesn’t justify this:
I have no problem with tanks in pvp, so long as they’re balanced properly. The people that hate tanks in pvp are the same people that hate healers in pvp. They just want to push 3 buttons back to back and delete someone without counterplay.
Having said that, tanks are overtuned right now in pvp, especially prot pallies. We can’t have a spec that heals better than healers, never goes oom, has amazing dps and control and never dies. It’s clearly broken and causing a lot of people to get mad.
Was looking and Sanctuary isn’t even in the spell book says it was removed in Legion. Didn’t think it existed anymore?
This is true. People just don’t like anything that is a counter or offers diversity.
You’re absolutely free to play your tank spec at the expense of everybody else’s time and enjoyment of the arena. And with that you should understand that everybody else is absolutely free to hate you and not have any respect for you whatsoever, enjoy~
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Then everyone should hate healers as well.
Healers single-handedly extend the game longer than anyone does.
The problem isn’t tanks.
It’s tanks + healers combined that is the problem.
Prot/DPS in 2s, or Prot/DPS/DPS in 3s should be fine.
The only thing I’ve really agreed on in here, is that prot + healer goes against the spirit of the 2-healer limitation that was clearly put into the game for a reason.
That’s because it doesn’t exist and hasn’t since patch 7.0.3.
I ignored that because I didn’t want to focus on his clear lack of knowledge of the game (using an ability that has been gone for 2 whole expansions saying it’s “huge” haha), I wanted to focus on prevalent class abilities.
But, this just illustrates the point… most people have no idea what they’re talking about with tank specs. They just assume, high health pool, they’re classified as a “tank” so they must have massive natural dmg mitigation and be impossible to kill. What they really have are a few extra DCD’s, and stuff they have to talent into… that’s literally it. Once those DCD’s are down they’re actually easier to kill than a healer/DPS.
i hope you report the retards who make death threats and wishing harm upon your family, kinda sad how tough people act behind a computer and would probably never say that face to face
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people dont like tanks (in arenas specifically) because theyre gimmicky and generally low skill for good results. they also lead to long drawn out games and back to dampening. their toolkit doesnt revolve around getting kills, just delaying them. the only place where tanks are accepted in pvp is in bgs because thats where they have a role: FC’ing.
just because theres very few at high rating doesnt mean its healthy for the game. the playstyle of tanks in arenas is extremely toxic, prot pallies in particular right now.
if blizzard could ever properly balance tanks in pvp, then people would be more open to the idea of it. but tanks are designed entirely with pve in mind, with zero regard to pvp. prot pallies are outhealing healers, doing about equal dps to dps, all while having infinite mana and instant cast heals and having what feels like infinite cds. people will use the “but they take 50% increased damage in pvp” as an argument for why theyre balanced, but the increased damage is irrelevant when they have as many cds as they do and heal for as much as they are.
They don’t heal “better” than healers.
They don’t have “amazing DPS”. They have adequate burst to aid another DPS for kill windows, otherwise put out no pressure, and their overall damage numbers reflect this.
They don’t have any better “control” than many other classes. Rogues have far more control, as one example. Prot pallies are above average in this category.
“Never dies”. LOL.
Again, I watched stunandbung, the current #1 pally on US 3v3 in a 2600 rated game literally get 2 shot by a ret pally once his CD’s were down. That’s not an exaggeration. In the details breakdown, ONE HIT did 24k. That’s what the 50% extra damage to tanks will do when there’s no “oh sh** 5 minute cooldown button” active.
They are actually the BEST kill target on almost every map once their stuff is down. If I knew from tracking that all 3 enemy targets had their “buttons” down, I’d train the tank every single time bc of the 50% extra damage. No question.
I agree their healing is a bit overtuned. Tone it down by 15% in PVP and I think they’re fine.
Just like ret pally burst should be tuned down, just like sub rogues needed to have burst dmg tuned down, just like fire mage needs their legendary tuned… TONS OF STUFF NEEDS “tuning” in this game.
How does that lead to SO MUCH HATE… literal death threats etc to someone like stunandbung.
Imagine Xaryu getting death threats for abusing fire mage to a 70% win rate. Unreal.
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ONLY kill target. pretty much impossible to kill anything else if a prot pally is on the team if they even remotely know how to rotate defensives.
tell that to the prot pally that outhealed his rsham in a 10 minute game.
So, the only honest thing you said in your post:
“People don’t like tanks because they’re generally low skill for good results.”
Then you followed with more of this BULLCRAP. It’s just literal garbage false statements.
“Prot pallies outheal healers” (No they don’t. I can show you an example of me outhealing bad healers by self-heals and offhealing on my SP. All that shows is the healer was bad. Prot heals do NOT outheal the healers… what a crock)
“Doing about equal dps to dps”. Dude. Have you ever actually looked at the numbers on the abilities, or played the spec. No they absolutely do NOT hahahaha. All those DCD’s listed above that make prots so “unkillable” come at a cost. Look at the DPS spec in the same class. Instead of getting a wall, extra bubble, extra silence, etc, they get massive damage. There is NO WAY a prot could keep up with its own classes DPS spec, let alone others like fire/arcane mage, shadow priest, arms warrior, windwalker monk etc. Just the most disingenuous trash I’ve ever heard because its literally just a straight lie.
They DPS and heal about 60% what a good DPS/healer do. Now, that totals 120%, which, when you combine the dmg/heals, shows an advantage on the scoreboard. I think that is a legit argument. So… they’re slightly overtuned. Tune down their heals by 15% in PVP (so it doesn’t ruin raid performance) and they’re fine. They’re not some unkillable raid boss that does the same DPS as a DPS, more heals than a healer. What a straight up lie.
Go watch Stunandbung’s VODs. They’re really good arena gameplay, and you’ll see that although his matches are somewhat longer (I’d say statistically significant, but small effect), the basics of arena are all still there, and they lose plenty of games against good caster/setup comps.
Tanks counter melee burst meta very well, melee burst counters caster comps very well, and caster setup comps counter tanks very well. It brings balance to the game mode. Rock/paper/scissors is good for PVP.
The difference is active vs passive mitigation. Active mitigation has outplay openings, passive does not.
There’s a significant difference between a resto druid playing 40 yards away, juking interrupts, ready to prebear a step-kidney or he gets 100-0’d, and some 55k hp plate class mashing 123 on your face the entire game while doing 70% a pure dps’s dmg and keeping his team topped.
BFA guardian druids could literally stand afk on top of their teammates and generate pressure through brambles and protector, can you see how that would be frustrating for someone to play against?
he plays prot, im gonna have to disagree on the “really good gameplay” thing you just said there.
the game doesnt need tanks to counter a melee meta, casters are already doing very well at high rating against the cleaves, and will only get better as people get more gear and the overperforming specs get nerfed. the only difference is that the people playing those casters are actually good and understand how to deal with melee.