Torghast is Amazing: Don't gate it

Community General Discussion
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Having now been lucky enough to play Torghast in it’s early form, I am amazed with just how much fun it is.

Clearly the WoW devs have played their fair share of The Binding of Issac. This is incredible, it’s enticing, repeatable, and encouraging to play it over and over, to get an even more powerful run.

Without a doubt in my mind, this will be some of the most fun content available to the players in Shadowlands. On one condition

Don’t Gate Torghast.
Don’t prevent people from playing Torghast, don’t lock entry behind keys, currency or resources, And don’t make people do dailies in order to unlock attempts at Torghast.

Players should be able to do this for fun, and no other reason. Because it is incredible, and deserves to be enjoyed whenever the player wants to enjoy it.

If there is going to be progression and upgrades behind Torghast, then that progression should be limited so people can’t just grind forever and ever. I propose a simple solution to this, Make Torghast similar to Island expeditions.

Island expeditions only give you a major reward 4 times a week. once you’ve done those 4 Island expeditions, they no longer give you the significant Azerite rewards. But there is nothing preventing you from doing them anyways, even if they barely give any rewards at all.

Blizzard, please consider this, Players should be able to enjoy the absurd fun of Torghast any time they want, without having to earn keys or attemps

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Sounds awesome! They’re totally going to gate it though.

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Cap the rewards you can get from it, and not the ability to do it. If it’s enjoyable, let people enjoy doing it even if they aren’t getting rewards from it anymore.

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Here’s my idea: Add a ton of cosmetics, limit the amount of gear upgrades people can get per day, but cosmetics can be earned whenever.

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This is the model I want all content to follow really… having a very reasonable casual friendly “hit this milestone to keep pace even if you only log in once a day”, then the “sure go do unreasonable amounts of grinding and gameplay if you want”.

I am currently playing s20 of diablo3… it really is the perfect gameplay model, log in do a range of fun things build up power with a unique/quirk to the system and complete the season journey.

Then stop playing and come back next season.

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you must be new

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:roll_eyes:
I’m aware this is something Blizzard does constantly. I’m trying to stop it from happening again.
If I was new, I wouldn’t be aware of the recurring pattern at all.

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Not a fan of artificial gating, but for something like Torghast I think there needs to be some form of gating. If you can spam it endlessly for gear and materials then a lot of your character power is going to be tied to how much time you have to run Torghast. If they cap the runs at say 10 per week, then Blizz is basically saying it’s a requirement to run Torghast 10 times per week on every character to stay competitive.

I’m interested to see how they plan to balance this, because I agree with you that it is very good. I just don’t want it to be 80% of my play time because then after a week or 2 everyone will end up hating it.

We don’t really know how the legendary components work yet. But that could be a way to soft gate it. Like you can only get 10 legendary components each week, and any run you do after you have 10 just won’t reward those components, similar to the Valor/Conquest cap from previous expansions.

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As I suggested earlier.
Subsequent runs of Torghast within the same weak should have less and less rewards after a certain amount of times. I’m using 4 as a placeholder, since blizzard has used that before for Island expeditions.

If they have to, make it so Torghast gives literally no long term reward after a certain amount of runs in a week. But don’t STOP people from doing it. It’s FUN

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Yeah I think that is a fair compromise. One of the things I hate about visions is that once you’ve used your keys for the week you can’t help your friends out. Would be nice to be able to run with your friends in Torghast even if there are no rewards for you.

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This is an excellent point.

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Exactly. At the end of the Day world of Warcraft is a game about cooperation. A player shouldn’t ever feel prevented from playing the game with their friends.
it’s an MMO

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Ion said in a recent interview that they’re opposed to that, because then people might feel like they should chain run it as practice.

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so either gate it behind a resource grind, gate it behind time, or cap out the resources you get per week. if those aren’t the options you want to choose from, then torghast can’t reward anything because people will complain about how much time it requires. i would prefer capping the resources you gain. it worked for arenas, it worked for valor, it will work for torghast. just use the mop system where alts will get resources faster for each capped out character that week.

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Having actually played Torghast, I strongly agree with capping the amount of reward you gain from it.

Currently, on the Alpha, when you defeat a boss (Which occurs on every 6 floors) You get 2 rewards:
An “Anima Power” which i’ve just started refer to as Items like Binding of Issac. or Risk of rain, ETC.
And you get some “Legendary Components”
The legendary components are the only thing that leave Torghast with you. If you put a limit on them, that’s fine.
The player is still rewarded for killing the boss. You get an Anima Power to continue going even deeper. So it’s not like the challenge is without reward.

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Its a form of character progression. Its like saying you should get to run the same raid every day, if not for loot, then for practice. I realize you can run dungeons ad nauseum, but better to start safe and let people do more as a ‘catch up’ mechanic later on.

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It’s randomly generated. You get random improvements to your class, the floors are randomly laid out. ETC. ETC.

It’s not like a raid. The most Direct comparison are Rogue-like games. E.G. The Binding of Issac, Nuclear Throne, Synthetik.

These are all “Hard” games. They take some degree of practice to be good at the mechanics. But no amount of practice or mental fortitude will prepare you for a bad run where you simply don’t get good luck, or a good run where you get so brazenly overpowered that you Roflstomp everything.

Torghast is clearly taking many leaves out of Rogue-like game design. And I implore you to find a single successful rogue-like game that limits the amount of runs you can make per day.

It’s not about practice. I can’t practice if on one run My blade dance is 99% of my damage, and on another run my Metamorphosis lasts indefinitely and makes me 3x taller.
But it IS fun, and should be accessible to everyone at any time.

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I understand, I mean I’m not in alpha, but i’ve played my fair share of d3, and once you run the rifts enough times, you subconsciously have a list of possibilities of how the map tiles can be arranged, allowing you to be more efficient, and waste less time.

edit: watching sloot also on twitch to learn about this.

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This is absolutely true. In fact being an avid Diablo Player myself, I’m aware of this fact.

This also exists in all my previous examples. Issac, Nuclear Throne, Synthetik. ETC. You can become subconsciously better by simply playing over and over and over.

However, As a counterpoint: This isn’t a problem. At all.
Players who practice and practice for no rewards, just to get a better base level understanding of Torghast deserve to do better than players who don’t.

If you are willing to put so much time into a rogue-like game that you know its ins and outs, then you will get further than players who don’t and that is fine.

These players will be able to get more out of their Torghast runs and I don’t believe that’s a problem. Practice = Skill. and Skill should yield higher rewards.

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I’d be really surprised if they didn’t gate it, but they probably will.

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