Torghast Exploration 5 gems?

That’s also assuming a time penalty won’t go into the negatives. Deaths count to lower the score, and have no limit, so it’s plausible that time will eventually decay into the negative.

I wouldn’t be caught dead being bored enough to test it out though.

Edit; The whole scoring system is a bit of a convluted mess that doesn’t explain itself without having to go to Wowhead or wherever to look up what’s actually going on, tack on Layout/Mob RNG and you can’t even properly compare run to run. It also isn’t real-time so you don’t know if you’re missing something until you’re at the point of no return, and I think the RNG might confound addon attempts to implement real-time tracking, not sure.

I imagine for most people this system will basically be “Kill/complete things on your way as best as you can see how to, hope you won’t be disappointed at the end”.

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I got my Flawless run in 18:24~ as a Prot warrior (224 iLvl~) with just 2 Tower Knowledge spent on 2/3 Blessings.

Without them, I might’ve still been able to hit it, but it would’ve been very close.

What blessings did you get? The only ones I ever seem to see are the Koritha armaments

Got my first flawless in 26min or so, ele sham ilvl 212 with auto-loot and +1 blessing. Biggest thing was to just use empowerment on slightly larger trash packs. I also got the shoplifter blessing (kill brokers for additional powers) which helped I think.

I got the Cursed Souls (+3% main stat/-1% Stamina per stack) as one, and Anima Hoarder (free anima power when you hit each floor). Those are two of the best for sure, but there’s other really great ones.

I thought I screenshotted my final score screen, but apparently not.

I got a 5 star, and it didn’t reward me with anything interesting. I thought you were supposed to get better rewards or something? XD

You have to get the talent to unlock adamant vaults.

its very possible to get 5 stars and supposedly its pretty easy, but blasting through it super fast with 99-100% completion, no deaths, and even decent pulls will only net you 4 stars. You gotta do some extra stuff to get those other bonuses.

At least two have posted that it can be done while virtually ignoring the timer (the crappy gotta go fast element isn’t required). I’m sure others have done it besides Vaerume and myself, but there’s at least two screenshots for evidence of it being possible.

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I got 196/197 points (just short of 5 stars) on my runs without looking up what the special achievements were.

Now that I know what they are, and with increasing buffs from tower knowledge, 5 stars is very doable.

I’ve got two issues with torghast as is.
First some of the par times dont seem quite right to me. I got a fairly long floor 2 chock full of mobs. Took 6 minutes going as fast as I could without dying (came close though) and the par time was 4 minutes. Just going to guess that the par time is accounting for the tower tree filled in maybe?..
The other is still class and spec balance.
I’ve done a few runs to figure things out this week. My monk cheesed it as always with the vivify power. No problems there.
As bear I was able to muster just over 3 gems. As feral I got just under 4. As balance I got 2 effing gems. Now granted I’m not great with balance, but I also didnt get many powers that helped with par times… I ended up stacking the roots/dmg power having to slowly melt mobs. So power selection will affect rating to some extent… bleh

Either way I will make due for however long my sub time runs, but I actually didnt mind the old torghast. If you managed to complete it, you could move up… now its m+… meh.

I don’t think it’s that par time accounts for Tower Knowledge (there isn’t really that much in TW that would affect speed), but it’s just that it can’t/doesn’t really account for mob density/pack structure. Some floors, you’ll just get a chain of double-elite packs, and next time, the mobs are just not there at all.

It’s going to fun with Mort’regar and the teleporting platforms.

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I don’t expect the high score, but I expect clearing the layer gets me access to the next layer, period, full stop.

And why should it. Your expectations means nothing, reasons are that matters. I can expect the sky it be pink and made of meat dosent mean it should be or will be like that.

Clearing a layer dose not mean your ready for the next layer it only means you are able to clear and and should get your reward.

A good score shows you are likly ready for the next layer. 4 gems is not hard to get and if your ready for the next layer you can get that with hardly trying in fact even 5 gems are proving to not be overly hard even with limited knowledge on layer 9 as players have the gear to be ready for layer 10.

This fixes one of the vary problems people complained about in Torg lack of ability to know the difficulty to come and when you are ready to move on. The score system tells you when to try to move on.

There are many examples of games and even real life requiring not only clearing something but a good score to move on. Prime example high school you might pass with a 50 but no one in there right mind would think you should or are able to move onto university with that score. Can go further and point out in university where a 50 that is a “pass” will still get you kicked out. Even lfd has the same just since you can clear normal instances or hit max level you don’t get access to heroics your required to hit a set score (ilvl) first.

Does it really?

Does padding your score with jars, souls, treasures, cheesing Floor 3 empowerment bonus (buff snapshot), etc. really say anything about whether you’re ready to move on, or how difficult the next Layer is going to be for you?

Very little about the Torghast score is skill-based, or means much in terms of whether you’re capable of completing/scoring. It’s just about ticking off arbitrary requirements. Trapmaster, mayyyybe Daredevil, are the only things that actually connect to “skill”, or “readiness”, and even they aren’t very important in the context of clearing the next Layer. Everything else is either a checklist, or comes down to RNG/cheese.

Minor sidenote

It’s “very”, not “vary”. Vary sounds similar, but has a very different meaning.

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It dose in fact say a fair bit about if you are able to do the next layer.

While no it’s not perfect it is quite a bit better than the old system of toss you in with no idea.

If you are the player that is rushing never poping pots you are going to have a lower score and a lower power level. Breaking pots dosent pad score it’s directly tied to your power level. As such it becomes harder to get a high score and not being able to means you have stuff to learn before moving on. While if can get the score anyways and is quite possible to do without poping pots your fine. Souls are the same it’s not padding it’s is directly tied to your power level.

Floor 3 emp cheese those is cheese and if anything floor 3 should just not be added to score at all as it’s a “free” break floor.

Being able to get those bonuses are the same way. It demonstrates knowledge of the runs by being able to stack them this shows your likly more skilled at the runs themselves as take the time to learn. Do you need to do it no but non the less makes the score harder to get if not.

Yes a good score dose show you are ready for the next layer. As wouldent be able to get it otherwise by some factor either being to slow dieing to much or unable to complete/pull of the bonuses.

Saying A good score showing you are likly ready thou is vary different than saying a bad score means you are not ready. Which is why I never said that. A bad score dose clearly show you have stuff to learn and improve on thou. The system is not perfect no but it is much better than the old way of going in blind with no feedback till you hit a roadblock with a harder than avg boss, making you feel your time was wasted unfairly. Just like in real life you don’t need a score of 65 overall in high school to do most jobs having that score shows you are more likly to be prepared and ready for jobs that require it.

This is the key diff. Nothing says you are not ready if you got a low score but a high score dose show you likly are. This fixes the vary issue I mentioned people feeling they got cheap shotted by a power spike between layers since they happened to get a easy last layer by making you refine the last layer to a point before moving on.

It’s actually the opposite; breaking pots is indirectly tied. They give you Phantasma, which may or may not get you additional Anima powers, which are themselves completely RNG-dependent. The Broker may not have any extra useful/significant ones that his additional Phantasma will let you buy, and if it gives you a Cell choice, that Anima cell may or may not get you a useful/significant power.

Ultimately though, missing out of score from pots doesn’t mean you’re “never popping them”. It’s that you’re not focusing on completing every one. This might mean you’re docking 5 points because you broke 80% of them (instead of the 90% for Pillager), as well as whatever completion % that translates to, e.g. another 3 points.

Rescuing Souls on the other hand directly gives you straight % Primary stat (and soon health), but if you’re beating the last boss anyway, it’s power that you didn’t need. The only way additional Souls affect you at that point, aka the only reason to keep rescuing more, IS to pad score, because you had all the required power without them anyway.

As such it becomes harder to get a high score and not being able to means you have stuff to learn before moving on.

Being able to get those bonuses are the same way. It demonstrates knowledge of the runs by being able to stack them this shows your likly more skilled at the runs themselves as take the time to learn. Do you need to do it no but non the less makes the score harder to get if not.

Think about it this further though. You have to go through ticking off score at every level to get to the next one. What you have NOT learned by level 8 or 9 (hell, arguably Layer 4) that 4-starring there is going to “teach” you more? Do you actually think people are trying to go past to Level 10 this week and don’t know that you can knock down phylacteries for Phantasma?

The only things people are potentially missing out at that points is the special points critera from https://www.wowhead.com/guides/torghast-scoring-system-shadowlands#torghast-scoring-system-score-charts - except none of that is properly explained in-game, so either they’ve already looked it up, or have now lost time and are being frustrated into going and looking it up.

The system is not perfect no but it is much better than the old way of going in blind with no feedback till you hit a roadblock with a harder than avg boss, making you feel your time was wasted unfairly.

Cool, now that we’ve accepted the premise that “the old system” had severe information flaws, let’s address that. The roadblocks came as a result of poor class design, poor boss tuning (e.g. certain bosses being out of tune with others), actual difficulty being backloaded purely into end-bosses while all the trash and minibosses on the way were trivial, and the sheer RNG of anima powers and bosses masking any true assessment of difficulty.

Has any of that changed in 9.1? Does the scoring system inform you of anything that would in any way touch on these? It really doesn’t. If anything, it adds its own separate set of things to the pot for someone to have to look up and work around.

This is the key diff. Nothing says you are not ready if you got a low score but a high score dose show you likly are. This fixes the vary issue I mentioned people feeling they got cheap shotted by a power spike between layers since they happened to get a easy last layer by making you refine the last layer to a point before moving on.

How? If you got an easy previous layer, and you run around completing a checklist to get overkill levels of power and beat an easy boss to a pulp, what does that possibly do for you against an actually difficult boss on the next power jump? The difficult in THAT run comes because of their mechanics, or maybe you got bad Anima Power RNG, or something, and possibly still “difficult” even after gaining every drop of Phantasma, Souls, etc.

The idea that scouring a floor for 100% of pots instead of 75% of pots on a previous unrelated run, on an easier difficulty, is going to change how you feel about the roadblock before you is beyond ludicrous.

I kind of felt like the point being made about this was that there is no real skill involved with clicking on the pots, or a host of other criteria that don’t represent much skill. At most, I’d say you’re being evaluated for your thoroughness. More a question of fortitude or willpower at this point. “Do you have the patience to hunt down and click on them?”

The key word in your statement is ‘harder.’ Notice how it’s not ‘more difficult’? It’s not challenging, it’s busywork. Nobody is bragging to their mom about how skilled they are at breaking pots.

It really doesn’t.

I can clear a floor of torghast in under a minute. The only reason I am taking longer than that is because I have to clear 100% for score.

Quit while you’re behind, your constant trolling is boring.

I just wish they’d maybe thought through how some of the RNG elements like powers and blessings / torments don’t really mesh with the scoring system. I’ve had a few runs already where I’ve lost the epic power bonus simply because the game threw out an anima cell that only offered epic powers. No way to decline both, and you’re not allowed to loot any more until the current one is used. There’s no way to play around that, and it’s especially irritating when it’s the initial anima cell at the start of the run (gotta clear a floor just to force it to reset to something else).