Can this be done or did Blizzard lie to us? The hot/empowered streak and par times seem to be the only way to reach 5 stars unless I’m missing something. Did Blizzard lie yet again and create another crappy gotta go fast system in a freaking game where not everyone wants to be a god damn demon hunter?
The bar doesn’t decay, so you can fill it up as you go along and pop it right before a big room, preferably full of small trash and lots of jars/souls. Go ham while you have the empowered buff and you should get an ok bump in score.
Killing all the mobs/breaking all the jars/saving all the souls seems much more important than being super speedy, but time is still somewhat of a factor.
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https://www.wowhead.com/guides/torghast-scoring-system-shadowlands
Difficulty of getting 5 gems:
You have next to no tower knowledge and you expect it to be easy to get the highest score? As per basically every game with a step stone power system you need to get your chars power up to a set level before getting the max score is even possible furthermore easy.
Prime example look at the powers to not only raise the rate to get empowered but the time empowered and the increase in effects under empowerment all of these combine to significantly increase the time you can be empowered for that is one of the factors needed for a perfect score.
I can get 4 stars on layer 9 by exploring floors fully and going at a reasonable rate ~20 min per wing which is not to hard. As such adding more gear or tower knowledge wont be hard at all to get 5 gems on layer 9. Yes higher layers will also be more difficult but will also have significantly more gear and knowledge for them.
As for it encouraging speed running:
The gem system dose NOT encourage speed running, it rewards using time effectively, doesn’t require it. In fact exploration is the most important factor. Yes you cant suck at your class so much that you need to cc every pull to live you need to know how to play your class and be effective about it esp if you want to do it with lower gear levels or lower tower knowledge. But time to clear is in fact a vary small part of the score needed and you really don’t have to move that fast assuming a reasonable gear level furthermore overgearing the content that is norm for most players.
In fact 25-30 min quite fine as a time and likly means full points for a layer 9 with layer 12s allow for as much as 35 min, for getting 5 stars which is going quite slow in fact. You can clear in under 15 min even faster if you want to speed run but your score in fact would suck as skiping content for speed is WORSE than exploring for score AND empowerment time. You only need to met “par time” to get max score being faster than that gives you exactly nothing extra but costs you a ton of score if the floor was not complete. These par times are vary loose if you no how to play your class and are not undergeared/under on knowledge.
In fact its completely possible to get 5 starts even without hitting any par times or ever empowering just using extra points achievements, if your run is perfect in all other regards but that’s a rather extreme case as par times are vary loose and not emping shows a clear lack of understanding of the mode as a whole. For 245 possible score without anything from emp or par times only req 200 for 5 star. In fact even removing the kill the boss in under 20/40 secs ones and the kill two elites within 10 secs of each other (that is in fact not hard and is easier if not rushing but as you might count it as a rush achievement ill remove) you still hit 215 points leaving not a single requirement that requires doing anything in a rush and still possible to get 5 starts without ever using empowerment to boot. With using empowerments a “perfect” run hits 5 starts with ease before even looking at any points from time at all.
The way empowerment is explained is inherently encouraging a go fast meta and non-cautious play style. Big pulls and blasting through when you do have the buff.
There should be more of a emphasis on fill the bar = spawns a hard enemy on the floor that gives you a chance at special rewards like the cosmetics/mount or unlocks an extra part of the floor. Scoring 5 gems should be clear the map and don’t die that’s it.
They could add bonuses if you never drop below 40%, or other things even based on class. Frost Mage you take no damage on a floor you get a reward. Tanks you tank 10 mobs at the same time you get a buff. Rogues kill the floor boss before any other mob you get a bonus (but they add true-sight mobs that patrol or have to be sapped.) etc.
There are so many ways better than this fill the bar and then blast through enemies/pots/souls. On top of that they still have done nothing to encourage party play. They should add different mobs based on whether you have a tank or healer. It’s not hard they just went incredibly lazy with Torghast. It could have been great but it’s a shoddy single player Mythic+ with minor buffs to your character. It’s worse than it was at release in beta or 9.0 before the nerfs and they have added nothing to it that is inspired.
The fact that they locked a bunch of the features behind an arbitrary “seasonal” knowledge system just shows they don’t value the fact we paid for the box price and the subscription at the time. They are releasing a piece meal system that hamstrings the player for no reason so we can’t even play the system in how they designed it until months down the road. It’s a freaking shame because it slows feedback which in the long term just hurts players with less time to engage with games.
There’s so many other things to play now people are just going to quit WoW and come back when the time gating isn’t there. That’s if they ever come back. Frankly I’m hanging by a thread and I know a ton of people in the same boat. WoW needs to stop with the petty time gating and 6 month mount bribes. Nobody cares about cosmetics or mounts in a game where their time and money is not valued.
On a side note where are the new powers and why are the absolutely useless powers still useless?
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You not wanting times runs dosent mean everyone dosent want them.
Just since you don’t want them dosent mean no one is allowed them.
They made a system that not only allows you to take you time and get 5 starts just fine and in fact just as easy to the point in quite a few ways ins in fact eaiser to get 5 stars taking your time and forgetting about par time. If you want to spend that long in Torg.
At the same time the system rewards those that want to go fast with also being able to get 5 gems.
In fact this is a vastly better system than what your asking for that forces one way to play.
The system also encourages party play as par times are not significantly reduced in party’s. This allows you to spread out and clear at. A much quicker rate making parry’s have a significant advantage over solo in many ways.
Honesty your post more says you don’t understand how the system works that your complaining about more than anything as the vary things you are saying it dosent do mare in fact the vary things the system did address with Torg and they did a good job at.
The tower knowledge being unlock over time is also in fact the exact system many players asked for a reward that lasts run to run that most roguelikes have . Torg is made to be a roguelite it was advertised as such as it not having something like tower knowledge from the get go was a massive flaw pointed out by many players.
Tower knowledge is not them locking features behind a point system it’s then expanding the system as you unlock more to keep it fresh the system is complete without tower knowledge, knowledge makes it eaiser as time goes on so a self needing system for those that want it eaiser and additional rewards over time. This gives those that want a challenge the challenge of doing it early or with low knowledge while giving those that just want to do it a way via the self nerfing nature it’s in fact one of the best moves they can make it have the most people happy as you will never please everyone.
Yes empowerment wants you to push faster which is 100 percent fine, never once was it said or even implied you need to. In fact blizzard outright explained and even shown clear examples of you not needing to which I even listed in my other post. You picking to use a empowerment playstyle where you use it for large pulls is your choice. It’s completely fine and viable to not do so and just it just for bosses or hard pulls as a extra CD. In fact that’s exactly what I did on my 5 gem runs.
No we don’t want full bar to spawn more crap. That’s the exact thing people don’t want. As those things you spawn if there not a challenge is just more trash so a pointless waste of time. If there a challenge there not a equal challenge for all classes and roles and we get the most complained about issue once again of “bosses” not equal balanced.
Torg is def better than it was at the start of 9.0 claiming otherwise when it’s clear as day that’s not true just discredits you and really makes you look foolish. Trying to claim the unbalanced buggy mess that was early 9.0 Torg was better than this is just dense.
While yes I don’t personally love torg complaining about something you obv have not even bothered to learn how it works or even understand it first is not good it’s unfair to the devs and shows your feedback as rather worthless. Esp when the new changes already fix your complaints. It is more party friendly than it was and it dosent force you to rush it rewards both playstyle just as well with good odds to get 5 gems going fast or slow with it being honestly best to go slow but with purpose. Going to fast makes it harder but still quite possible going to slow is the same both still quite easy to hit 5 gems thou. Adding more emphasis on one side at this point would take to much away from the other feels quite well balanced with completion being most important followed by extra rewards with time being the least important factor.
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No i’m not insulting you, you are insulting yourself by trying to claim something when its clear as day to not be true if you understand even the basics if how the scoring system works that was even linked to you in this vary thread.
You are still claiming the “focus” is on speed running this is not true and renders your entire post moot when your vary baisis is flawed.
Hense you should understand the system first.
As said the system dose NOT require you to speed run in fact the best ways is NOT to. You are claiming speed running as the best way its not the best way in fact blizzard went out of there way to insure its not.
They kept speed running as an option which is 100% fine and SHOULD be there as people do enjoy doing that.
The best way to do torg is COMPLETION, this is NOT speed running in fact its the exact opposite. Yes you need completion while not wasting time you need to do it with a purpose they made those times VARY loose. 25-30 min for a layer 9 upwards of 35 min for a layer 12 is not fast. Its in fact quite slow. My last 5 gem run I finished in 22 min when par was 30 min thats 8 min spare and I am not anywhere near perfectly geared or top end on tower knowledge. Nor am I a dps class or one of the best players out there.
That not speed running that rewarding just playing with a purpose.
Even when you don’t go for par times AT ALL it is still just as easy if not EASIER to get 5 stars than speed running it.
So no they are not forcing you to speed run in fact they are doing exactly as you asked and gave players not only a option to not speed run but made it a completely viable and recommended way to play. Thou completely disregarding the time is not recomended you can even do that if you want and in fact already people are for those that don’t want to rush as its eaiser to get 5 gems for those kind of players.
The vary fact you think there pushing speed runing shows you DON’T understand what your talking about.
I never once said torg is good team play once again you show you lack understanding and ability to read. I said they did exactly as you asked and IMPORVED the encouragement of torg for groups. A improvement is not making it good or is it making it prefect. A improvement is exactly that an improvement nothing more. Your statement “they have done nothing to encourage party play” is 100% FALSE since you claimed they did NOTHING fact is they din’t do nothing they did improve party play, and encouraged it more via giving a significant advantage to party. That not being enough for you is fine but don’t make things up. That shows you don’t understand what your talking about when you do. Being accurate in feedback is vary important, as if you don’t understand what your talking about obv your feedback cant be good as you didn’t try the content enough to understand it at even a basic level.
No im not missing the fact that tower knowledge could be better in fact never once said it couldn’t be. I said that NOT having tower knowledge was bad NOT that is was a perfect system massive difference but do once again show lack if understanding of what is being said. You said tower knowledge shouldn’t be there that would be BAD as it is a system not only asked for but almost required in roguelites. That is what I agrued NOT that it was perfect. If you made suggestions to imporove it may of agreed with you. As a note number 1 I agree with 2 and 3 I DO NOT. Number 2 is the EXACT reason the system was wanted. Number 3 if they din’t time gate it people feel there “need” to do it all right away as has been shown countless times in the past. This is the reason for many times gates and systems like tower knowledge and valor these gates make sense. To not only prevent players from killing themselves but also giving a chance for players with less amounts of time to keep up. Esp as the cap is a growing cap meaning you NEVER fall behind on the max possible you can have vs other players only on the current value.
Yes I will agree the challenge being taken away is not great but the score system dose make up for that in many ways. None the less even if the challenge being there was your “ideal torg” the time you picked to call ideal would still of NOT been when you claimed. Release in beta. or pre nerf 9.0 as both those times torg was not only buged in many ways many classes it was not possible to complete. And no I don’t mean it took skills I mean quite literally not possible there was literally bosses that could make some specs not able to attack them at all. This was the reason for those balancing nerfs. Claiming that torg was better when it dint even work for many specs is nothing more than foolish and tells me clearly you have no idea what your talking about. It is clear as day a torg that at least works for everyone will always be better than a torg that dose not due to game breaking bugs. If you said torg after the 2nd round of nerfs before the first global nerfs you would of at least had some merit to what you said and it would of at least been debateable as at least it worked for everyone at that time thou the balance was so far out of wak that it was still not fair in any way and still not a good system.
Once the bar filled for me, I waited for a big pack to use the extra-action button. Apparently I waited too long because the button disappeared after less than a minute and the bar immediately went back to zero. 
Friend and I, both geared at 222-223, completed both wings in < 15 min each, got 100% completion and yet scores in the mid 150s. Short of the 160 score needed for a 4-gem run. Seems like arbitrary gating that is very complicated. What was wrong with “complete this layer and you can move on to the next?”
There is at least a tooltip explaining what to do to fill your empowerment bar, but it says if you fill the bar past the “min threshold” the empowerment will last longer when used. I waited to fill it fully and it disappeared on me without getting to use it. It would be fantastic if that were explained in-game, along with the scoring system.
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You also get bonus points. It’s on the guide that someone posted earlier.
Examples being:
Not having duplicate powers
Not taking epic powers
Killing two elites within 20 seconds
Not taking trap damage
Closest run for me so far was 194 in 16 minutes on my monk as WW. But I made some errors, I missed a chest (Even though I got all 3 keys) so my completion was 98% and I had almost 30% empowerment time.
The toughest part about maintaining empowerment is that it feels like a system added into an environment that wasn’t designed for it. Mobs are so far apart that getting a big pull without them dropping aggro is hard. And if even one drops and runs back, you might not notice or if you do, you have to waste all that time going back.
The insta-looting box ability really really helps speed up your run. I highly recommend picking that one first.
Overall, I think it’s a good way to ‘soft-gate’ torghast layers without just making them punishing. I can see 5 starring one this week, maybe with a partner or even a close to perfect solo run. But with a bit more gear, 5 stars will be very easy.
yep. i bought this first on both characters i run Torghast on and it’s an immediate QoL improvement.
Aaaand there we go! Just got a 5 star run solo on my rogue, 214 score in just over 20 minutes. Item level 206.
Another nice thing to do is to pop empowered towards the end of the boss on floor 2 for the bonus from the kill, then get the empowered bonus from the entire floor 3 because your buffs are paused, then go into floor 4 with all your cooldowns back up and do another big pull.
Most of my runs on my monk and druid are between 180 - 220 depending on how easy the runs are based on floors, powers, or rares.
It’s not too bad when you start getting more familiar with it and the floors. Sometimes your able to get 2 empowered casts on a floor if you get a nice map which kind of offsets the size of some of the maps & duration it takes to clear.
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yep, i figured this out tonight completely by accident. coincidentally got my first flawless run (240ish points i think). every bit helps!
Source:
https://www.wowhead.com/guides/torghast-scoring-system-shadowlands
It seems that way.
and yet you can completely ignore it and still get 5 stars, as i demonstrated in another thread. here’s the screenshot again:
even if you subtract the 23 points for time, that’s still >200
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Do you know what par was for that run? Apparently you have to hover over the time, the UI doesn’t just outright show you. I’m not sure though, my gf was telling me about this.
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I don’t – I didn’t know you could do that! I’ll check next time. Since time is worth 50 points and I scored 23, I would guess par is somewhere around 20:00-22:00. Not great, but I didn’t bomb it either.
edited: I’m guessing meeting the par time gets you the full 50 and it decays the longer you take. not sure!
so yes, if you take 3 hours to run a non-TC Torghast wing, you’re not getting the 50 points for time. that’s just how it is. but that doesn’t mean you can’t get a 5-star run!
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Yea, that’s what I was trying to get a feel for. I didn’t know the max was 50 points though. It does sound like you could have gotten 200+ points with zero from time, if you get all the other things.
Good to know 
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