Torghast concept is good, design is poor

Community General Discussion
101

All of your posts have elements of being incorrect. I’ll just take one point you made saying that Shadowlands has more subscriptions than WOTLK. Can you show me where that was said. Because what I heard was that the subscription numbers were higher than in the last 10 years. Conveniently, WOTLK high sub numbers were just beyond the ten years ago point.

That is called wordsmithing and it makes everything sound grander than it really is. Those that lack a critical thinking skill set fall for that trap all the time. That would be you.

At this point, everything you say is nothing but white noise. Your severe lack of intelligence rages on as you stroke your keyboard with your naivety, witless retorts, and downright idiocy. But brave on, maybe Blizzard may redeem themselves and restore the downvote button. I’d say your posts would be a great reason as to why it’s needed.

2 Likes
102

Devs should play something like Enter the Gungeon (an actual rogue-like), and see how fun and fast paced the combat is, then compare it to what Torghast currently is.

It’s just far too slow and too much of a slog right now.

103

Emphasis mine.

They clearly want to present their opinion of how the word design should be used as fact. We are trying to address that and explain to them why they are mistaken in their assumption that design has a solely artistic application.

If they do not want to present this as fact, they should not use the word “fact” when presenting it. :woman_shrugging:

As they so clearly said themselves:

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104

I wasn’t “rude to people” - I was pointing out that your usage of “design” was incorrect. Then some egotistical snob “English major” had to come in with it’s sanctimonious "So, thanks for being pedantic and trying to vocab-shame someone, but the English major is gonna have you beat every time, babe. " I am not “wrong” just because YOU and some egotistical BE “English major” both agree that to justify your incorrect usage of the term “design” you pass it off as “colloquial”. You should have just used the word “semantics”, like most do when they use words incorrectly.

BTW - is it the design…or the system… that you are crying about?

105

Honey, it’s okay. You didn’t realize we were using design to mean the way systems are designed and not in an artistic context. You can just let it go. Really.

106

No one can control how others read or perceive posts, this is why I feel like it’s not okay to be toxic to others because they share a different opinion. You are 100% in the right!

107

It is not an opinion. And I am not mistaken in any way, shape, or form. The rest is just YOU trying to justify YOUR opinion of the word “design”. YOUR opinion is that it is a “colloquial” term in your usage - nothing but “semantics”. YOUR opinion is wrong. And just because you agree with yourself does not make it correct - nothing but confirmation bias.

108

If you blatantly ignore all other definitions of the word “design” outside of a purely aesthetic context, sure!

This is serious derailment of the thread. Too bad Blizzard CMs don’t bother to help topics stay on-track like other MMO forums.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/design

Yeah. My opinion of a definition that is universally accepted lol. See also: my other previous links discussing game design concepts.

Or this one, which is for a degree in, wait for it, “creating lifelike landscapes, designing levels and stories, developing virtual simulations, or writing the coding that brings everything together”!

https://hello.fullsail.edu/game_10ar?mncid=9651&mnckeyword=Game%20Design%20Degree&utm_campaign=ALL-GAME&affiliatecode=EDU&step=input&agid=9289530757

Or this link, which addresses game design concepts and, I don’t know, it’s weird but it seems to address a lot more than just art?

https://medium.com/serious-games-377g/9-big-ideas-from-game-design-you-should-know-71d6c5c514ac

Weird … must just be my opinion though!

109

Don’t call me honey. You do not know me on a personal level.

I realized that you were using the term incorrectly and that you just changed the usage to fit your narrative - like most “English majors” do.

110

See my above post edit, thx. :kiss:

111

There are already enough crybaby threads about Torghast. This is just another in a long line of crybaby threads.

Why couldn’t the OP just contribute to one of them? Why did he have to think he was so special that he needed his OWN crybaby thread?

112

Careful, using logic and reasoning goes against the motto of the Anti-WoW Hate Mob, they will false flag and harass you simply for having a different view than them :roll_eyes:

113

creating lifelike landscapes - ARTWORK

designing levels = ARTWORK

and stories = ARTWORK

developing virtual simulations = ARTWORK

writing the coding that brings everything together = Programming

Creating boss mechanics and how they impact a player = SYSTEM

114

Tupac: “You’re allowed to have your own opinion!”
Carene: “It’s not an opinion and I’m not mistaken it is fact!”
Tupac: “You are 100% in the right with your opinion!”

Yikes. There’s no way this isn’t a troll. There’s absolutely no way someone comes onto the forums to create a mass debate about semantics and the colloquial meaning of “design”. Even if I were to take the textbook definition of design and apply it here I wouldn’t be wrong. They had to DESIGN the system just like they had to DESIGN the actual map. The word works in both scenarios. When I said “system” I was referring to the whole action chain of having to do torghast TO GET soul ash TO GET legendaries TO GET a power increase and how it stresses me out that since there’s no way to get soul ash from the previous weeks I feel like I’m wasting resources and the ability to power up my character by not wanting to slog through torghast on a healer just to get denied by a dps race.

2 Likes
115

It stresses you out… there is YOUR problem right there.

The DESIGN of Torghast is fine. It is quite excellent, actually.

The SYSTEM pertaining to the MECHANICS of the NPCs might need to be tweaked to accommodate crybabies - but the DESIGN is gorgeous.

116

PREACH! :clap:

117

Lol yeah you are just being silly.

Here have some more then!

https://www.amazon.com/Game-Design-Workshop-Playcentric-Innovative/dp/0240809742

Master the craft of game design so you can create that elusive combination of challenge, competition, and interaction that players seek. This design workshop begins with an examination of the fundamental elements of game design; then puts you to work in prototyping, playtesting and redesigning your own games with exercises that teach essential design skills.

And from the link you clearly did not click:

The core loop is designed to keep people playing.

Oh wait, do you mean, the gameplay loop is purely the art department’s job? :joy:

https://miro.medium.com/max/613/1*gMSFOMB_2Tn_ZBEiXs6QUA.jpeg

It’s a picture, I know, but that doesn’t mean all of this is done by the art department!

  1. Formal Elements of Game Design
    The formal elements have proven over and over to be a useful game design and analysis tool. The elements are to game designer what anatomy is to doctors.

https://miro.medium.com/max/700/1*7--7hs0dil3SNitQO6ygyQ.jpeg

Hint: they’re not talking about the artwork in an anatomy coloring book! And again, I know this is a picture, but they’re also not talking about the artistic design of the subject headers. :sweat_smile:

  1. MDA
    The MDA framework was documented in the paper MDA: A Formal Approach to Game Design and Game Research http://www.aaai.org/Papers/Workshops/2004/WS-04-04/WS04-04-001.pdf. MDA stands for Mechanics, Dynamics and Aesthetics. It postulates that when you combine game Mechanics (rules and other game atoms), that interaction creates Dynamics (arguably, a “game”) which results in Aesthetics (experience). Designers consider Mechanics and how they create dynamics, but the player experiences and thus owns the Aesthetic. The emergent nature of this theory is often overlooked/misunderstood.

See, aesthetics are a part of it, you’re not wrong about that! It’s just that you’re so focused on that bit you … are completely missing the forest for the trees, here.

Game design is a larger concept than artwork, sugarplum.

118

agree 100%

the idea is fine but the implementation is flawed

119

Need to edit your post 5 times to make it look like the two situations are somehow magically connected? What stresses me out is worrying about if I don’t get the power increase my guild might not want me to come to raid. Torghast is pretty much anything but stressful. If I had to put a word to it it’d probably be “mindnumbing” because it’s you afk slapping the same enemies for 30 minutes until you hit the magic number where the boss has too much hp and you don’t have the right powers to beat the dps check so you get one shot a minute and 30 seconds after engaging it.

120

Remember, Torghast is 100% optional content. No one is forcing you to do it!