To Whom It May Concern Regarding Nelf Lore.

Lore Story Forum
21
Unfortunately I often find that when you take a tone like this you get to a point where you don't sound like you're participating in a conversation, rather you come off as just dismissing how people feel, which ironically very easily allows people to dismiss whatever points you were actually trying to make.


I'm sorry I'm dismissive of how Blizzards treatment of a fictional species is upsetting to some people. That doesn't change the fact that OP is certainly not doing too well if something as little as that is upsetting to them. Perhaps some distance from the game would be better for their health.

Here's the other thing: This is a community that houses a lot of people addicted to this game, people who probably wouldn't still be playing for the story if this is what they feel about it. Which honestly is probably why this community is so terrible, no one wants to be here so they image ways to improve it, or they identify with a race more than is healthy.

Just saying, don't tell me OP isn't being ridiculous.
22
I would love to see the night elves become more savage and feral in their fighting. When I think of Kaldorei and based on what I read and played way back in WC3, my impression was of unseen, highly skilled and trained warriors. The only time you knew they were there was when you heard their yips and eulalating warcries in full, beautiful, deadly, horrific primal force as arrows and glaives rained down with pinpoint accuracy. As zealous in protecting their homelands and in their faith as they are ferocious and savage in warfare, but tempered, privately, by their highly disciplined, martial society.

In the woods, they were the unseen nightmare of any force, able to hit and deliver destruction and death then vanish before the enemy could respond. In the open, able to move and fight like the feral beasts they immulate. Not invincible in warfare but to beat would require a concerted, dedicated, full force effort and drive. Like unto First People’s warfare that brought terror and nightmares until the modern age that only the cruelest and most extreme options could beat.

That’s the Kaldorei I would like to see.

The beautiful savage. The brutal, efficient, master of guerilla warfare, the true tamer of the wilds and warrior of forces primal and beastly.

I feel that was the intent of the designers way back when. What we have is a grossly watered down version of this. Ideally, each race should be given equal dedication, but that is not the case with this game. This iteneration of this game thus far, at least.

This might be a ramble but I hope it conveyed that I, and I know, many others feel like. We want to play and enjoy this game and we all have varying ideas on what our, (‘Our’ being night elf fans.) favorite race is. Yet the story, as is, does not yet meet that expectation to make what we have in this scenario acceptable.
23
I'm actually quite satisfied with the War of Thorns storyline. It's a fantastic story and the fall of the Night Elves is pretty much in the same legendary vein as that of the Alamo. It has victory, defeat, sacrifice, and pathos. It gave us some great characters in Queen Maia, Laroch, and Daelaryn the doomed commander of the Night Elf Defense.

I also particularly enjoyed the twin novellas. and I was very into playing both sides of this war, Alliance and Horde.
24
10/31/2018 11:13 AMPosted by Mellow

I'm pretty optimistic that they will have some satisfying developments at some point. I guess the many letdowns make the satisfying ones better? Sometimes anyway.


When I think of night elves I'm reminded of beaten animals crying out in pain when you try to pet or properly care for them. They been abused for so long they don't know what kindness or compassion is.

I'd be surprised if blizzard bothered to write a satisfying turn for the kaldorei. The current writing team just doesn't have any passion for them outside of abusing them for a cheap tragedy track for the lawful good portion of the alliance to keep their precious moral high ground and feel indignant.
25
10/31/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Demontê
Just saying

I'm just saying no one's going to take you seriously. Especially if you add on top now that you're coming off just as rambly, if not as lengthy as the OP.

10/31/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Drahliana
I'm actually quite satisfied with the War of Thorns storyline. It's a fantastic story and the fall of the Night Elves is pretty much in the same legendary vein as that of the Alamo. It has victory, defeat, sacrifice, and pathos. It gave us some great characters in Queen Maia, Laroch, and Daelaryn the doomed commander of the Night Elf Defense.

I actually was very satisfied with how the Night Elves handled the War of the Thorns as best they could, and I was and still am very touched by Elegy.

The Alamo however eventually lead to the U.S. defeating Mexico in a war that pushed all the way into Mexico's capital and then getting California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico on top of Texas from Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. *Hides from Saiphas.*

The Darkshore Warfront isn't giving the Night Elves that same kind of post-defeat success.
26
10/31/2018 08:37 AMPosted by Drahliana
We were not demigods in Legion. We were heroes gifted with mighty artifact weapons that became even more powerful as we used them. We also sacrificed the bulk of that power to save Azeroth from the Blade of Sargeras, so we're back to being very mortal Champions instead.


The devs seem to think otherwise...

Afrasiabi: Back in time. It’s interesting. I think about this a lot, because I’m a nerd. Especially in Warcraft, do we become what we kill? And we’ve got these characters in the game, these Alliance and Horde players, who have done it all, and in killing an old god, do we take some of that with us? In killing an elemental lord, do we take some of that with us? A dragon aspect. A titan. I think we do.

And so we’ve set the stage for, when we say, what is the most badass thing out there? I would argue it’s the living god that put an axe in the side of a titan, more so than the titan itself. So when I look at a player character and I say, look, we have a world populated with living gods at this point, that have ideological differences that cannot be righted, what happens in that world? Well, this happens.

I’ve got this group of gods and this group of gods that will never get over their differences between the humans and the Forsaken, the orcs and humans. Never. The Night Elves and the trolls. The Night Elves and the Tauren. I mean, there’s so many different racial divides that have melted away into the background, but they’re still there. For those races, those things are still there.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/hnewman/2018/01/30/battle-for-azeroth-questions-answered-why-warcraft-players-wont-see-void-bears/#2391e62436cd

Ha, and I thought we were just demigods. We are apparently full on godmode now...

10/31/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Demontê
Anduin did not raise his entire army, if we can even consider the cinematic canon


But that Human Potential™ just had to be shown am I right? While an ancient Priestess can't even lift a finger to at least rez one soul before they become Forsakan...

10/31/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Demontê
What is unrealistic is the apparent gold standard Fanboys give the Night Elves. They should never lose, their heroes should lead the Alliance by virtue of age only, their military is unstoppable, blah blah blah.


I never said that they should never lose, or should be unstoppable, or even lead the Alliance.

10/28/2018 08:29 PMPosted by Shadowlynx
Experiencing defeats and losses in a video game story narrative is perfectly fine. However, to continue to experience defeat after defeat and loss after loss without any wins or victories within the story narrative, is very depressing and uninspiring to experience and play through.


And

10/28/2018 08:29 PMPosted by Shadowlynx
I am not saying that Night Elves should be invincible, but they are not amateurs when it comes to war and battle either. After all they are a thousands year old people with experience.


10/31/2018 11:54 AMPosted by Demontê
Give me a declining elven empire trying to redefine itself while still being true to who they are in a rapidly changing, possibly dying world.


That's so Tolkien...^

10/31/2018 12:40 PMPosted by Nemiria
I would love to see the night elves become more savage and feral in their fighting. When I think of Kaldorei and based on what I read and played way back in WC3, my impression was of unseen, highly skilled and trained warriors. The only time you knew they were there was when you heard their yips and eulalating warcries in full, beautiful, deadly, horrific primal force as arrows and glaives rained down with pinpoint accuracy. As zealous in protecting their homelands and in their faith as they are ferocious and savage in warfare, but tempered, privately, by their highly disciplined, martial society.

In the woods, they were the unseen nightmare of any force, able to hit and deliver destruction and death then vanish before the enemy could respond. In the open, able to move and fight like the feral beasts they immulate. Not invincible in warfare but to beat would require a concerted, dedicated, full force effort and drive. Like unto First People’s warfare that brought terror and nightmares until the modern age that only the cruelest and most extreme options could beat.

That’s the Kaldorei I would like to see.

The beautiful savage. The brutal, efficient, master of guerilla warfare, the true tamer of the wilds and warrior of forces primal and beastly.

I feel that was the intent of the designers way back when. What we have is a grossly watered down version of this. Ideally, each race should be given equal dedication, but that is not the case with this game. This iteneration of this game thus far, at least.

This might be a ramble but I hope it conveyed that I, and I know, many others feel like. We want to play and enjoy this game and we all have varying ideas on what our, (‘Our’ being night elf fans.) favorite race is. Yet the story, as is, does not yet meet that expectation to make what we have in this scenario acceptable.


Agreed, that was beautifully written OP.
27
I think Tyranda nuking a valkyr is pretty impressive, and I don't think nathanos is so weak that he should have been insta killed by her. I mean this is a dark ranger we are talking about. It'd be a whole lot more exciting in a cinematic like Sylvanas vs Genn, with Nathy weaving past starfalls and dodging arrows, but the idea that she should have killed him super quick implies she was as tough as him to begin with.
Which I don't believe is true. Even in wc3 she was more like a leader than an in your face warrior.

I do think they could have done a better job showing her as that though, since obviously most feel she isn't bad !@# enough with the Nightwarrior upgrade.
28
The Darkshore Warfront isn't giving the Night Elves that same kind of post-defeat success.


That's the crux of the issue, isnt it? Gameplay before story, always, as it should be. The odds of warfronts being removed after they have served their purpose in the "story" are practically non-existent. There won't be resolution for Darkshore. The most likely outcome is faction-wide watered down resolution in the form of a raid, set far far away from any Night Elf territory. Afterwards, the entire expansion's narrative, including "redone" zones, will be dropped in favor of the new plot developed at the end of the expansion.

Is it possible I'm wrong? Of course, but I don't have much hope for blizzard following through with a meaningful story when they a) have dropped previous expansions' stories at the drop of a hat and b) have shown such hilarious disregard for their own lore in BFA following what I assume is their "rule of cool" (however to their immense credit they have fixed some of the most glaring issues: Tyrande utterly jobbing, forsaken betraying Sylvanas, draenei warlock purge squads, tauren blightspreaders, etc)

The War of the Thorns doesn't upset me as a Night Elf fan. Honestly if you're a fan you should be used to it by now :). There are plenty of cases of other races getting the veritable !@#$ beat out of them. What about Gnomes and Gnomergan? They lose their king this patch too. Taurens with Baine? Hope you're RP'ing a Grimtotem and having a blast, otherwise yikes. Even undead, since it looks like Sylvanas is at the very least going to be removed from Warchief after being slandered by the writing team as comically evil.

What upsets me about BFA is that the Night Elf dilemma won't be resolved, among the plenty of issues with the other races sans undead (albeit in an almost assuredly unsatisfactory way). I want Night Elf land taken back. I want the refugees from Stormwind back in Kalimdor. I want to see the Night Elf army kicking serious butt in Kalimdor, not Zuldazar or under the sea with Azshara. I also want to see the undead winning back stuff in Lordaeron, including Undercity.

I'm not asking for the map to end up with the same drawn lines, just to not have refugees clogging the faction capitals, Darkshore to not have Forsaken death camps and Brill to not be a flaming crater for the next 10 years. Don't kick this expansion off with such a tremendous lore shaking event and drop it in favor of what everyone assumes is [generic world ending threat #7, now with corruption!].
29
These posts expressed the feelings of Nelf Fans and others almost perfectly. We tried to bring them to the attention of the blues, but alas.

General Discussion Forums:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769617797?page=9#post-172

Story Forums:
https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769587656?page=8
30
10/31/2018 02:16 PMPosted by Blahblahn
What upsets me about BFA is that the Night Elf dilemma won't be resolved, among the plenty of issues with the other races sans undead (albeit in an almost assuredly unsatisfactory way). I want Night Elf land taken back. I want the refugees from Stormwind back in Kalimdor. I want to see the Night Elf army kicking serious butt in Kalimdor, not Zuldazar or under the sea with Azshara. I also want to see the undead winning back stuff in Lordaeron, including Undercity.

I'm not asking for the map to end up with the same drawn lines, just to not have refugees clogging the faction capitals, Darkshore to not have Forsaken death camps and Brill to not be a flaming crater for the next 10 years. Don't kick this expansion off with such a tremendous lore shaking event and drop it in favor of what everyone assumes is [generic world ending threat #7, now with corruption!].

This is definitely my worry as well, and I agree even more that this feels even worse because of the way they decided to start the expansion with the Night Elves like this.

Which is even worse because there's been a history of the Night Elves being routinely used to start storylines, and then almost always dropped out of the story completely after, and such has been the case for almost all Night Elf related lore since Cataclysm:

  • Garrosh efforts almost entirely directed towards the Night Elves --> Night Elves not involved in Battle Field Barrens or the end of Garrosh's invasion of their lands beyond a token appearance at the Gate of Orgrimmar.
  • Deathwing destroys the "Night Elf District" of the Park in Stormwind --> Left as a carter for years until it's finally rebuilt as a memorial for Varian.
  • Night Elves defending Pandaria and welcomed in to the Vale of Eternal Blossoms --> No part of the lore involving them in the defense of the Vale from Garrosh.
  • All of Tyrande's and the Night Elves' presence in Legion and their history with it punctuated with the idea of seeing them at the Legion's final defeat --> Not even a token Darnassian Night Elf on Argus.
  • Illidan resurrected from the dead at the Nighthold --> Never comes to talk to the other Night Elves, not even Malfurion or Tyrande in person despite their having been around at the start of the story but - as is my point - not on Argus or even the Tomb of Sargeras. Illidan never even came back to talk to the Illidari and the Demon Hunter player personally. His end cinematic of staying to take on Sargeras just served to remove him from the story in preparation for BfA so that it wouldn't have to be explored how Illidan would react to the Horde attacking the rest of the Night Elves again and burning down their capital.
  • And of course now the entirety of BfA starting off with a war of devistation against the Night Elves --> Where previously all indication suggests there would be no follow up with the Night Elves' plight as BfA continued, the Darkshore Warfront narratively is even worse:
  • As we get the empowering of the Night Warrior and the raising of Night Elves as Forsaken --> Probably leading to a dead end narratively as the Night Elves and Forsaken fight over Darkshore indefinitely with no conclusions if the story moves on to other focuses.
    • 10/31/2018 03:03 PMPosted by Akiyass
    These posts expressed the feelings of Nelf Fans and others almost perfectly. We tried to bring them to the attention of the blues, but alas.

    General Discussion Forums:
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769617797?page=9#post-172

    Story Forums:
    https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769587656?page=8

    Those are great posts by Ilthen indeed.

    I also have a thread up on the PTR Forums: https://us.battle.net/forums/en/wow/topic/20769698267

    If anyone remembers Kyalin from back in the day, she's been posting in the PTR thread. Kyalin was a very passionate Night Elf poster around these parts. We didn't agree on a lot of issues, but that's a good thing, having different perspectives from fans of the same subject matter of the Night Elves.
    31
    To those who say we want Night elves to be invincible

    No, we don't. We just want to have one, unambiguous, total victory for once. Not a phyrric victory, not a bittersweet victory, not a skin-of-our-teeth victory.
    We just want to win something.
    32
    10/31/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Granfaloon
    I think Tyranda nuking a valkyr is pretty impressive, and I don't think nathanos is so weak that he should have been insta killed by her. I mean this is a dark ranger we are talking about. It'd be a whole lot more exciting in a cinematic like Sylvanas vs Genn, with Nathy weaving past starfalls and dodging arrows, but the idea that she should have killed him super quick implies she was as tough as him to begin with.
    Which I don't believe is true. Even in wc3 she was more like a leader than an in your face warrior.


    Not by a long shot!
    As much as you believe Nathanos is good, he is nowhere near Tyrande in combat/magic skill.
    I'm yet to see Nathanos standing agains endless waves of armies like demos or undead. And all Priestesses of the Moon which Tyrande is the Highest Ranking Member are requiered to be top tier fighters. They are the elite along with Wardens.
    Nat might be good might Tyrande should always be shown to be better than him.
    33
    10/31/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Resìleaf
    To those who say we want Night elves to be invincible

    No, we don't. We just want to have one, unambiguous, total victory for once. Not a phyrric victory, not a bittersweet victory, not a skin-of-our-teeth victory.
    We just want to win something.


    But ... the Alliance in general hasn't even had that yet. You're asking for something the ENTIRE FACTION hasn't been allowed to have, and you're asking to be allowed to have it while ALSO having your leadership do exactly what her opponents wanted her to do; and to do it primarily alone as a race.

    Beyond that, not to be un-empathetic, but the NE's aren't the only PC race to suffer this sort of tragedy; in fact they aren't even the only ones in WoW who have suffered this type of event. The Gilneans and the Bilgewater both where decimated during Cata, and that's rarely ever really focused on.

    Hell, the decimation of Kazan for the Bilgewater was treated so haphazardly that Blizz actually had to either retcon (or just ignores) the Lost Isles ... because they don't want to deal with the question of why Gallywix is still the race's leader after what he did; because they don't want to bother having to write a replacement.

    The guy is partially responsible for Kazan blowing up; forces the few survivors that make it to his yacht to pay their way into slavery; after crashing on the Lost Isles enslaves a majority of those that survived the boat, on an exploding volcano; and the majority of THOSE survivors still live in the "Goblin Slums" in Org.

    Plus, the ONLY way the Bilgewater get to really shine is with their tech (which like the Gnomes is really the real power behind their factions military); but just like the Gnomes their tech is just as often ignored if its inconvenient for the Plot. And the Bilgewater aren't the ONLY PC race by far that gets this treatment.

    Outside of them, within the last 30 canon years, the Humans (twice); Gnomes; Draenei; Orcs; Darkspear; Tauren; and Blood Elves have all suffered similar near extinction level events ... and the Humans and BE's even got to deal with their people being raised and turned against them as undead monsters as well.
    34
    10/31/2018 05:27 PMPosted by Resìleaf
    To those who say we want Night elves to be invincible

    No, we don't. We just want to have one, unambiguous, total victory for once. Not a phyrric victory, not a bittersweet victory, not a skin-of-our-teeth victory.
    We just want to win something.

    But ... the Alliance in general hasn't had that yet. You're asking for something the ENTIRE FACTION hasn't been allowed to have, and you're asking to be allowed to have it while ALSO having your leadership do exactly what her opponents wanted her to do; and to do it primarily alone as a race.

    In context, in 8.1 the Alliance is being allowed to win. Even Nathanos reports to Sylvanas that the Alliance is on the cusps of winning the war.

    But the Night Elves specifically in all the Alliance is not getting to win.

    Even Mekkatorque being put on literal ice is still a win since he still saved the Alliance fleet, which was his goal.
    35
    10/31/2018 06:20 PMPosted by Amadis
    In context, in 8.1 the Alliance is being allowed to win. Even Nathanos reports to Sylvanas that the Alliance is on the cusps of winning the war.

    But the Night Elves specifically in all the Alliance is not getting to win.

    Even Mekkatorque being put on literal ice is still a win since he still saved the Alliance fleet, which was his goal.


    Because they insist on taking matters into their own hands and working independently, and the Gilneans only decided to back them because they owe them a huge debt; and don't want to leave them to get slaughtered like they would if they ran solo. They are an incredibly weakened force that has decided to try to tackle the Horde war-machine in Kalimdor (and worse, the two most amoral races).

    And even then, Zuldazar wasn't a "clean win" ... the Alliance failed in their primary objective with the Raid; took heavy losses; lost Grand Admiral Jes-tereth; Jaina got injured and backseated; and the Gnome's ONLY really developed representative gets put into a coma, and their reward for that is to have their capital they still don't get back insultingly turned into a pet dungeon in the same patch.

    So ... again, what? It sucks that the NE's are the ones to go through this "near extinction level event" arc this expansion, but at least their suffering is being focused on (and they are allowed to have wins, just maybe not clean ones). Gnomes, Gilneans, and Bilgewater's problems ... are all just ignored, and not ONE of those races is ever really allowed to have victories outside of their faction.

    EDIT: Don't even get me started on the Sin'dorei. Lor'themar? Who's that?
    36
    Zuldazar was a very clean win. Anduin's objective wasn't the Alliance's primary objective. The Alliance's primary objective was to ensure the Zandalari fleet would not be brought in to give the Horde naval advantage in the war against the Alliance. Whether this was by getting the Zandalari to remain neutral - which was no longer possible by the time of the attack on their fleet was enacted - or burning the Zandalari fleet, that was the goal, and it was accomplished. It was also clean, in that the losses were minimal. No one can expect to go to war without any casualties. And Jaina is immediately on her feet as a quest giver after the raid.

    That any of the other races - especially the Gnomes, who definitely deserve a win, given they were not allowed to get their home back when the Darkspear were - are separate issues, and deserve to be addressed in their own right.

    That they haven't has no barring on whether or not the Night Elves deserve to win now.
    37
    10/31/2018 01:38 PMPosted by Amadis
    10/31/2018 12:38 PMPosted by Demontê
    Just saying

    I'm just saying no one's going to take you seriously. Especially if you add on top now that you're coming off just as rambly, if not as lengthy as the OP.

    10/31/2018 01:07 PMPosted by Drahliana
    I'm actually quite satisfied with the War of Thorns storyline. It's a fantastic story and the fall of the Night Elves is pretty much in the same legendary vein as that of the Alamo. It has victory, defeat, sacrifice, and pathos. It gave us some great characters in Queen Maia, Laroch, and Daelaryn the doomed commander of the Night Elf Defense.

    I actually was very satisfied with how the Night Elves handled the War of the Thorns as best they could, and I was and still am very touched by Elegy.

    The Alamo however eventually lead to the U.S. defeating Mexico in a war that pushed all the way into Mexico's capital and then getting California, Nevada, Utah, Arizona, Wyoming, Colorado, and New Mexico on top of Texas from Mexico in the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo. *Hides from Saiphas.*

    The Darkshore Warfront isn't giving the Night Elves that same kind of post-defeat success.
    It'd be accurate if Mexico had won at the Alamo and then destroyed/annexed several more states, obliterated Washington, DC, and then set up camp in their path of destruction, and then crippled the USA as a national power.

    And then we get a movie about how one of Mexico's generals felt bad about it.
    38
    @Amadis

    They do deserve a win, I'm not arguing against that ... I am arguing that objectively they are FAR from the only ones that deserve a win.

    I sympathize for the NE's and their playerbase, but to say that they deserve a win right now ... when the Gnomes for example haven't been allowed to have a single clean win in over 14 years (and have only shown up ONCE in any cinematic outside of the Hearthstone one) ... is a little strange.

    The NE's will get their win. The friggen main antagonist (or second main antagonist) of BfA is Azshara, and there isn't a single race thats more important to "The War of the Ancients" storyline than the NE's themselves. Their going to get their solid win this expansion, even if its not in 8.1. They will have their time in the sun.

    The Gnomes? They'll just have to wait a few more years to maybe get Gnomergon back. The Bilgewater? Gallywix will MAGICALLY be acquitted of his crimes again and we're going to be stuck with him forever. The Gilneans ... they "might" get Gilneas back with their heritage questline ... so at least there is a win there.
    39
    10/31/2018 06:45 PMPosted by Droité
    They do deserve a win, I'm not arguing against that ... I am arguing that objectively they are FAR from the only ones that deserve a win.


    Great. The Night Elves deserve a win.

    Also, objectively?

    I sympathize for the NE's and their playerbase, but to say that they deserve a win right now when the Gnomes for example haven't been allowed to have a single clean win in over 14 years is a little strange.


    What about the Gnomes?!

    10/31/2018 06:45 PMPosted by Droité
    The NE's will get their win. The friggen main antagonist (or second main antagonist) of BfA is Azshara, and there isn't a single race thats more important to "The War of the Ancients" storyline than the NE's themselves. Their going to get their solid win this expansion, even if its not in 8.1. They will have their time in the sun.


    Assuming you're correct (and anyone is guaranteed anything). That's cold comfort during our ALL IS LOST moment.

    I've seen the Horde, Orcs in particular, talk about how they deserved a slice of the Legion pie, too, seeing as they kinda got a bone to pick with 'em. Yet there wasn't a notable Horde presence during key Legion moments last expansion.

    I agree with their grievance. Horde characters should have had a bigger showing. They deserved it and lord knows there were enough demons to go around.

    10/31/2018 06:45 PMPosted by Droité
    The Gnomes? They'll just have to wait a few more years to maybe get Gnomergon back. The Bilgewater? Gallywix will MAGICALLY be acquitted of his crimes again and we're going to be stuck with him forever. The Gilneans ... they "might" get Gilneas back with their heritage questline ... so at least there is a win there.


    What about the Gnomes? The Goblins? The Gilneans?

    Everyone gets a win or nobody does.
    40
    10/31/2018 05:44 PMPosted by Nightlighter
    10/31/2018 02:13 PMPosted by Granfaloon
    I think Tyranda nuking a valkyr is pretty impressive, and I don't think nathanos is so weak that he should have been insta killed by her. I mean this is a dark ranger we are talking about. It'd be a whole lot more exciting in a cinematic like Sylvanas vs Genn, with Nathy weaving past starfalls and dodging arrows, but the idea that she should have killed him super quick implies she was as tough as him to begin with.
    Which I don't believe is true. Even in wc3 she was more like a leader than an in your face warrior.


    Not by a long shot!
    As much as you believe Nathanos is good, he is nowhere near Tyrande in combat/magic skill.
    I'm yet to see Nathanos standing agains endless waves of armies like demos or undead. And all Priestesses of the Moon which Tyrande is the Highest Ranking Member are requiered to be top tier fighters. They are the elite along with Wardens.
    Nat might be good might Tyrande should always be shown to be better than him.


    Nathanos survived for years with the alliance sending armies after him. He is probably the most powerful non-magical (or non-legendary weapon wielding) being in the world, he is also the champion of the horde.

    Whether he can stand up to Tyrande? eh, blizzard has shown over the years that magic > might (unless might is backed up by magical weapon), which means that nathanos should be as powerful as Genn or Suarfang, but probably not.....the majority of alliance leaders. However, Nathanos combat prowess far exceeds tyrande. He probably has more actual combat experience than her as well, even though she is thousands of years old, BUT she has magic which in the world of warcraft is kinda an autowin.

    Keep in mind Tyrande did eff all in the war of the ancients and hasnt done much until the horde showed up in kalimdor.

    However, If the alliance can casually sweep aside such a powerful figure (and keep in mind the horde doesnt have many powerful figures unlike the alliance), that will just further cement that the Horde is not a real faction like the alliance.