Hello everyone. I am here to address my concerns about the disturbing direction of the Night Elves story in BFA. Experiencing defeats and losses in a video game story narrative is perfectly fine. However, to continue to experience defeat after defeat and loss after loss without any wins or victories within the story narrative, is very depressing and uninspiring to experience and play through.
I have been a fan of the Night Elves since Warcraft 3, but every since they were introduced to the World Of Warcraft their lore have slowly been going in a downward spiral of destruction over the years of xpacks. The Kaldorei went from being competent feral and savage defenders of their homelands, to a weak and fragile incompetent, defanged and declawed failure of a people in WOW. This is truly a kick in the face to all Night Elf fans who have been loyal subscribers to World Of Warcraft over the years.
1.The Priestess vs the Priest.
Tyrande, (AKA Avatar Of Elune) a ten thousand plus year old "High Priestess" who have been studying the healing arts of priesthood for thousands of years under the sisterhood of Elune, should have absolutely no problem whatsoever doing a MASS RESURRECTION to all of her sentinels, people and comrades who have fallen in battle. That should not be a problem for her to do at all. She should not even break a sweat doing it either! Does it happen? NOPE! Ninety percent of her race is now dead and becoming Forsaken who are now damned to WOW equivalent HELL! But more on that later.
Now let's talk about Anduin, (AKA King of Stormwind humans only) a nineteen-twenty something year old priest of the temple of holy light who has probably been studying the healing arts of priesthood for eight or nine years, during the BFA cinematic with his little tears rolling down his cheeks mass resurrect his entire army in battle with no effort whatsoever...
Dear WOW Cdevs, Can you please explain to your audience, how is it that a ten thousand plus year old "High Priestess" and Avatar of Elune in the current story as it is, cannot mass resurrect her entire army, people and comrades? Whereas a nineteen-tweenty something year old boy with eight to nine years of priesthood training can mass resurrect his entire army just like that? Please explain?
2.The Night Warriors failed potential.
When I first heard of Tyrande becoming a Night Warrior, I thought to myself that finally this would be Tyrande and the Night Elves time to shine and be victorious after all these years of defeat and disappointments. I thought that they would get their fangs, feral-ness and savagery back from their Warcraft 3 days. I thought that Tyrande would be a cool type of Elven Valkyrie that would rez her people up in power and strength to ride and fight with her in glorious battle, or send them to their Mother Moon Elune to protect them from becoming Forsaken. Did it happen? HELL NO! Instead, we got a Night Warrior Tyrande who seems to have become weaker than before the Night Warrior ritual! Who could not even best a rotten maggot filled zombie bow man in battle (even with the help of Malfurion too).
What was the whole point in going through with the Night Warrior ritual then? To only become even weaker after doing it? And what is the point in even getting the Night Warrior customization option for anyway? It should have been a new Night Elf racial that can call down the wrath of Elune. But what do the player characters get? Dead looking black eyes like gray aliens and those black eye kids. I would rather have silver and golden options for Night Elf eye colors, and those massive Warcraft 3 Nelf male body options. On top of all that, our fallen Night Elven comrades who for whatever reason could not get a mass rez from "The High Priestess Of Elune" have now become Forsaken for that dirty rotten witch lich queen 2.0.
Not only do Night Elves get slaughtered, and burned to ash, to rub more salt in the wound they get turned into Forsaken dark rangers who's souls are now forever damned for an eternity to WOW hell never to be reunited with their ancestors, families and Mother Elune in the realm of stars. Was killing the Kaldorei and burning them to ash not enough for you WOW Cdev writers? Did you have to damn the majority of slain Night Elves souls to WOW hell for eternity just like the Lich witches fate when she dies?
Dear WOW story Cdevs, why was Night Elf fans lead to believe to be getting a fist pump moment in TOV patch only to be revealed as more failures and defeats... I mean really?
3.The Goddess Elune.
Elune The Goddess of the Kaldorei, has the ability to turn the dark trolls into her image, created the naaru (according to Khadgar), turned Ysera the green dragonflight into a constellation and gave Night Elves shadowmeld to melt into the shadows. All of those amazing things that Elune can do yet, in BFA She cannot even MASS REZ her people and recreate bodies for the ones who turned into ash, and protect their wisp from becoming damned souls of the dark rangers? All through out mythologies and religions, Gods and Goddesses can heal and restore their people, etc. But Elune went from being a powerful deity in WOW lore into a weak entity in BFA who can't help her own Avatar Tyrande kill a zombie bow man? I am sorry, but this story sounds like Forsaken fanfic trash.
Dear WOW Cdevs, how does a zombie man defeat a Goddess?!
4.Malfurion the ArchDruid "Night Elf"
How does Saurfang sneak up to stab Furion in the first place? He is a "Night" Elf a nocturnal being that has night vision, and all Elves are blessed with ears like caracal cats. He should have been able to hear (with ears like that) Saurfang sneaking up on him. Night Elves are a wilderness folk with enhance sense of smell and the sneakiest of all Elves, YOU DON'T just sneak up on a Kaldorei. When you enter the forest of the Kaldorei, they already know you are there... Also, Malfurion is like a demigod, and he could not help Tyrande the Avatar of a Goddess kill a zombie man with a bow!
Dear WOW Cdevs, how does a nocturnal Elf with night vision, super hearing and enhance sense of smell get stabbed from behind? How do two demigods get bested by a zombie with a bow?!
5.We the Player Characters.
Alright we just finished being demigods ourselves with our artifact weapons in Legion, and becoming masters of our different classes fought and defeated intergalactic demons. But in BFA on the Alliance side we can't even resurrect the fallen or put out the fires that burned Teldrassil down to ash? Say that you are a Shaman, you could call forth rain to put out the fires of Teldrassil or if you are a Mage you could make the fires desist Or a Paladin, and help bring fallen souls back to life. But can we? Nope!
But team Horde can have magical fires from their mages that get thrown from catapults that can reach all the way to Teldrassil from darkshore way across the water... Video games are suppose to be fun for the player, not the player feeling powerless with repeated failures. We can defeat the "Legion", but not some Zombie witches evil plans? I am not feeling very heroic much anymore.
Dear WOW Cdevs, We were just demigods in Legion, fought demons, became masters of our classes, and we could not stop the Lich Queen from mass genocide of the Night Elves because???
6. Zero Faction Pride.
We were promised to have a lot of faction pride in BFA. Instead, we have faction drama on one side, and faction fail on the other. I actually had faction pride at one time during the Vanilla, TBC and Wrath era. But in BFA I have zero faction pride and will never have it again after this train wreck of a story. I play both Alliance and Horde, though I do play Alliance more with my Night Elf main. My faction pride is gone.
The Nelves are my favorite race and for whatever reason they are the race of choice by the WOW devs to be trampled underfoot, beaten down, slaughtered, and the go to punching bag to make the Horde look great. Or to make the "Human" Alliance feel like heroes when they come save us from our captors. I am really tired of this crap treatment and storytelling when it comes to the Kaldorei. I did not agree with all of the story decisions that Metzen wrote over the years, but I don't even think he would have allowed this much crap to have happened to the Night Elves in BFA.
Dear WOW Cdevs, Where is the promised faction pride at? Because i am not feeling it!
7.Orcs vs Humans.
I get it. The warcraft universe started out with just Orcs and Humans. But WOW is far beyond that now. The other races need their time to shine not just Orcs and Humans. Let the Night Elves have their time to shine. The universe and the fabric of time and space are not going to implode if they do. Give the Tauren time to shine, etc. You have a large player base who have many different WOW races that they like not just Orcs and Humans. This is WOW, not WC1.
Dear WOW Cdevs, I know WC1 started it all, but WOW is beyond that Orcs and Humans story now. Give the Night Elves and other WOW races a chance to shine.
8.Rehashed story.
I really wish that WOW lore would get new and original ideas. The last few xpacs have been 2.0 versions of previous Warcraft and WOW stories. WOD was a reset of WC1, Legion was TBC 2.0 and BFA seem like a light version of Wrath staring the Lich Queen. One thing I like about WOW lore was that every race had their own histories, problems and unique struggles. For example, Night Elves were learning to get over losing their immortality and fitting in with the other Alliance races over the years. Now come BFA their unique personal story is now becoming a Blood Elf 2.0 story. They were the most plentiful of all the Elven races, now they are on the endangered Elf list along with their Blood elf and High Elf cousins. But not only that we now have our very own Night Elf Sylvanas too AKA Delaryn Summermoon, and a new Cordona Felsong 2.0 (Sira Moonwarden).
You mean to tell me that you could not come up with a new story and lore ideas for the Night Elves other than turning them into the new Blood Elves 2.0 minus the Elf magic addict part? The Night Elves have so much potential for great story telling and lore but will they? Probably not. At least the Blood Elves survived and still has their land. Night Elves, however, is failing and gaining nothing but death and destruction. Their numbers are even less than Blood Elves now and more closer in population with their High Elf cousins. And you expect me to have faction pride from this?
Dear WOW Cdevs, How about some new story and lore ideas instead of rehashed stories from yesteryears?
9.Devs are way out of touch with their player base.
Over the years Night Elf fans have ask the WOW devs to please return the Kaldorei to their Feral and Savage WC3 roots. But we never get a response from them when it comes to Nelves, and the very opposite happens instead. They became weak and fragile, incompetent, always needing rescuing and slaughtered to near extinction. As a long time WOW player this is enough to make me quit WOW for good. Night Elves are just a shell of their former selves and thanks to BFA and the current dev team the damage is done and can never be repaired. Night Elf fans always gets the corrupted wish treatment.
You really should not alienate members of your player base like this. Players should experience moments of victory in a video game to keep them excited and interested in the story line. Not constant defeats and losses. You don't win favor with your player base that way, you just further alienate them. I would never do this to my player base if I had a gaming company. Look, I am just a nerd who is passionate about the WOW universe. I grew up with blizzard games, and the old WC and WOW dev team. I know that you are not the original WOW dev team anymore, but please hear me out current WOW dev team.
Night Elves should be feral, savage and able to hold their own. They are a shadowy nocturnal race that can see in the dark with excellent hearing and sense of smell. They should have a certain mystique about them. They are a wilderness folk, and know their own forest like the back of their hands, and ambushing them would not be an easy feat by any means, for they are a people of the shadows, warriors of the night. Kaldorei are basically bipedal saber cats like the very mounts they ride. That is the essence of a Kaldorei. For a race that are descendants from dark trolls, they should reflect it. They were never meant to be purple Humans.
I am not saying that Night Elves should be invincible, but they are not amateurs when it comes to war and battle either. After all they are a thousands year old people with experience. I know that there are losses in war, but damn you killed off ninety percent of the Night Elves in one xpack! How is that inspiring for Night Elf fans? How will they continue to have a future now that they are going extinct? I don't like too many retcons but this needs to be one!
Dear WOW story devs, please do not alienate your Night Elf portion of your player base, please do not ignore us listen, and consider our concerns Bring back our Warcraft 3 Kaldorei!
TLDR:
1. Anduin a twenty something year old can mass rez his entire army, while Tyrande a ten thousand year old "High Priestess Avatar Of Elune" cannot rez her own Sentinels and people before they become Forsaken?!
2.Night Warrior should have made Tyrande Goddess mode and turned zombie boy into ash, and rez her people or send them to Elune, so they would not become damned souls of the dark rangers.
3. Elune is a Goddess, zombie boy should have been annihilated!
4. Malfurion is a "Night Elf" they have enhanced sense of Night vision, hearing, smelling and are shadowy. Orc boy should not have easily been able to sneak up on demigod Furion. (Who also should have annihilated zombie boy)
5. Us player characters just finished being demigods ourselves in Legion and becoming masters of our classes, yet (Alliance side) could not stop a moody Lich witch from burning down the tree and kill off ninety percent of the Night Elves?
6. I have Zero faction pride, and never will again after BFA train wreck of a story!
7. Orcs vs Humans is long gone now. this is WOW not WC1. The other races need their time to shine.
8. Did you really have to rehash the Blood Elves story for the Night Elves?
9. Devs please stop being out of touch with your player base and alienating your Night Elf fans. Bring back Warcraft 3 Night Elves and not these incompetent purple Humans you keep giving us.
rotten maggot filled zombie bow man
that dirty rotten witch litch queen 2.0
I find your descriptions endearing. They have a real charm to them.
i wish the nelfs got their cgi cinematic not some dumb and sad orc who was sad for committing another genocide.
at least it would show that blizzard still has some love for the nelfs.
instead of giving anduin his "mass ress moment" i would be far more better that it was tyrande using starfall to obliterate the entire horde army.
at least it would show that blizzard still has some love for the nelfs.
instead of giving anduin his "mass ress moment" i would be far more better that it was tyrande using starfall to obliterate the entire horde army.
10/28/2018 08:46 PMPosted by Etheldaldi wish the nelfs got their cgi cinematic not some dumb and sad orc who was sad for committing another genocide.
at least it would show that blizzard still has some love for the nelfs.
instead of giving anduin his "mass ress moment" i would be far more better that it was tyrande using starfall to obliterate the entire horde army.
You mean like this?
http://mrpinchy.tumblr.com/post/177282896023/i-love-saurfang-but-the-dudes-gotta-stop
A question for the OP, is this addressing the story pre or post adjustments? I mean getting outplayed in their strong fields (covert movement, nocturnal condidtions) was silly, but it has been fixed that Nathanos doesn't make a fool out of Tyrande. She is able to be a notable threat, but not in a necessarily over-powering manner of ascending to god-like abilities, which would make the whole exercise pointless in itself, if it could just be a simple act of waving one's hand to smite thy foes off the face of the planet. He is also now shown to be empowered by the Val'kyr, which is also another notable improvement for player grievances (still room to improve, but I'll take it).
First of all, howdy, and welcome to the Story Forums.
I agree with a lot of your points, and we've been talking about a lot of them quite a bit recently ever since the 8.1 datamining started, so a lot of what you are feeling is what a lot of us have been feeling and have brought up a lot as well. So at least I hope to let you know that you're not alone in your feelings.
A particular part of your post especially caught my attention:
Recently here we have been talking a lot about how the War of the Thorns created a parallel for Sylvanas as Arthas, and the Delaryn as Sylvanas. But until you, I don't think we've been discussion this in the perspective of the Night Elves. We've been discussing it in the perspective of how it relates to Sylvanas. And it is dawning on me now, much like how "Old Soldier" was not a presentation about how the Night Elves felt about the burning of Teldrassil, but rather how Saurfang felt about the burning of Teldrassil, that we've allowed Sylvanas to subsume this angle of the story telling as well.
Because you're right. The Night Elves are being treated as Blood Elves 2.0, especially clearly when they're being given new eye colors in response to all the people they've lost. And you know what? The Night Elves aren't even actually Blood Elves 2.0. They're Blood Elves 3.0, because the Nightborne were already Blood Elves 2.0.
The Nightborne were just a repeat of the Blood Elf story after they lost the Sunwell, and now the Night Elves are the prologue to that where the Blood Elves got massacred before that.
It is rather astonishing, especially in light of the Blood Elf Heritage Armor quests bringing that even more forward into our memory on how clearly copied this story is.
So, thank you for addressing this from the Night Elf perspective, as I think we've been so focused on Sylvanas that we missed even this, and that we've actually been complicit in shelving the Night Elves in our minds the same way Blizzard has, at least in this particular aspect.
I agree with a lot of your points, and we've been talking about a lot of them quite a bit recently ever since the 8.1 datamining started, so a lot of what you are feeling is what a lot of us have been feeling and have brought up a lot as well. So at least I hope to let you know that you're not alone in your feelings.
A particular part of your post especially caught my attention:
10/28/2018 08:29 PMPosted by ShadowlynxOne thing I like about WOW lore was that every race had their own histories, problems and unique struggles. For example, Night Elves were learning to get over losing their immortality and fitting in with the other Alliance races over the years. Now come BFA their unique personal story is now becoming a Blood Elf 2.0 story. They were the most plentiful of all the Elven races, now they are on the endangered Elf list along with their Blood elf and High Elf cousins. But not only that we now have our very own Night Elf Sylvanas too AKA Delaryn Summermoon, and a new Cordona Felsong 2.0 (Sira Moonwarden).
You mean to tell me that you could not come up with a new story and lore ideas for the Night Elves other than turning them into the new Blood Elves 2.0 minus the Elf magic addict part? The Night Elves have so much potential for great story telling and lore but will they? Probably not. At least the Blood Elves survived and still has their land. Night Elves, however, is failing and gaining nothing but death and destruction.
Recently here we have been talking a lot about how the War of the Thorns created a parallel for Sylvanas as Arthas, and the Delaryn as Sylvanas. But until you, I don't think we've been discussion this in the perspective of the Night Elves. We've been discussing it in the perspective of how it relates to Sylvanas. And it is dawning on me now, much like how "Old Soldier" was not a presentation about how the Night Elves felt about the burning of Teldrassil, but rather how Saurfang felt about the burning of Teldrassil, that we've allowed Sylvanas to subsume this angle of the story telling as well.
Because you're right. The Night Elves are being treated as Blood Elves 2.0, especially clearly when they're being given new eye colors in response to all the people they've lost. And you know what? The Night Elves aren't even actually Blood Elves 2.0. They're Blood Elves 3.0, because the Nightborne were already Blood Elves 2.0.
The Nightborne were just a repeat of the Blood Elf story after they lost the Sunwell, and now the Night Elves are the prologue to that where the Blood Elves got massacred before that.
It is rather astonishing, especially in light of the Blood Elf Heritage Armor quests bringing that even more forward into our memory on how clearly copied this story is.
So, thank you for addressing this from the Night Elf perspective, as I think we've been so focused on Sylvanas that we missed even this, and that we've actually been complicit in shelving the Night Elves in our minds the same way Blizzard has, at least in this particular aspect.
10/28/2018 08:43 PMPosted by Yersyniarotten maggot filled zombie bow manthat dirty rotten witch litch queen 2.0
I find your descriptions endearing. They have a real charm to them.
:)
10/28/2018 08:46 PMPosted by Etheldaldi wish the nelfs got their cgi cinematic not some dumb and sad orc who was sad for committing another genocide.
at least it would show that blizzard still has some love for the nelfs.
instead of giving anduin his "mass ress moment" i would be far more better that it was tyrande using starfall to obliterate the entire horde army.
That would have been great to see Tyrande do that.
10/28/2018 08:47 PMPosted by JaouA question for the OP, is this addressing the story pre or post adjustments? I mean getting outplayed in their strong fields (covert movement, nocturnal condidtions) was silly, but it has been fixed that Nathanos doesn't make a fool out of Tyrande. She is able to be a notable threat, but not in a necessarily over-powering manner of ascending to god-like abilities, which would make the whole exercise pointless in itself, if it could just be a simple act of waving one's hand to smite thy foes off the face of the planet. He is also now shown to be empowered by the Val'kyr, which is also another notable improvement for player grievances (still room to improve, but I'll take it).
Yeah I read about the changes, but I would like to see in game some of the fallen Night Elves wisp being rescued before they are turned into Dark Rangers. While we might not be able to rez them (which I would prefer) at least allow Tyrande and the player characters to send their souls off to Elune.
10/28/2018 09:03 PMPosted by AmadisFirst of all, howdy, and welcome to the Story Forums.
I agree with a lot of your points, and we've been talking about a lot of them quite a bit recently ever since the 8.1 datamining started, so a lot of what you are feeling is what a lot of us have been feeling and have brought up a lot as well. So at least I hope to let you know that you're not alone in your feelings.
A particular part of your post especially caught my attention:10/28/2018 08:29 PMPosted by ShadowlynxOne thing I like about WOW lore was that every race had their own histories, problems and unique struggles. For example, Night Elves were learning to get over losing their immortality and fitting in with the other Alliance races over the years. Now come BFA their unique personal story is now becoming a Blood Elf 2.0 story. They were the most plentiful of all the Elven races, now they are on the endangered Elf list along with their Blood elf and High Elf cousins. But not only that we now have our very own Night Elf Sylvanas too AKA Delaryn Summermoon, and a new Cordona Felsong 2.0 (Sira Moonwarden).
You mean to tell me that you could not come up with a new story and lore ideas for the Night Elves other than turning them into the new Blood Elves 2.0 minus the Elf magic addict part? The Night Elves have so much potential for great story telling and lore but will they? Probably not. At least the Blood Elves survived and still has their land. Night Elves, however, is failing and gaining nothing but death and destruction.
Recently here we have been talking a lot about how the War of the Thorns created a parallel for Sylvanas as Arthas, and the Delaryn as Sylvanas. But until you, I don't think we've been discussion this in the perspective of the Night Elves. We've been discussing it in the perspective of how it relates to Sylvanas. And it is dawning on me now, much like how "Old Soldier" was not a presentation about how the Night Elves felt about the burning of Teldrassil, but rather how Saurfang felt about the burning of Teldrassil, that we've allowed Sylvanas to subsume this angle of the story telling as well.
Because you're right. The Night Elves are being treated as Blood Elves 2.0, especially clearly when they're being given new eye colors in response to all the people they've lost. And you know what? The Night Elves aren't even actually Blood Elves 2.0. They're Blood Elves 3.0, because the Nightborne were already Blood Elves 2.0.
The Nightborne were just a repeat of the Blood Elf story after they lost the Sunwell, and now the Night Elves are the prologue to that where the Blood Elves got massacred before that.
It is rather astonishing, especially in light of the Blood Elf Heritage Armor quests bringing that even more forward into our memory on how clearly copied this story is.
So, thank you for addressing this from the Night Elf perspective, as I think we've been so focused on Sylvanas that we missed even this, and that we've actually been complicit in shelving the Night Elves in our minds the same way Blizzard has, at least in this particular aspect.
Ah I forgot about the Nightborne being Blood Elf 2.0. Night Elves are now 3.0 Blood Elves :(
I wish the devs would give us a Warbringers Tyrande, and how the remaining Night Elves feel about all of the current events.
Yeah I read about the changes, but I would like to see in game some of the fallen Night Elves wisp being rescued before they are turned into Dark Rangers. While we might not be able to rez them (which I would prefer) at least allow Tyrande and the player characters to send their souls off to Elune.
I want this so bad, too. Especially given the one piece of information we have about the Night Warrior before this:
- Necklace with Elune Pendant
Elune is the primary goddess of the night elves. She is associated with the larger of the two moons, the White Lady. While she is a goddess of peace, she is not a pacifist. One of her aspects is the Night Warrior, who takes the valiant among the dead and sets them riding across the sky as stars.
I proposed the following change on the PTR Forums: As Tyrande and Malfurion are fighting Nathanos, have Tyrande cast a spell on Night Elf corpses that does what the description reads above as: Have their souls come out and fly off into the sky Team Rocket style and have their corpses despawn, having Tyrande save them from the Forsaken one by one until only Delaryn and Sira's corpses remain. Then when Tyrande goes to channel her saving spell on Delaryn, then have the Val'kyr use mind control spell on Tyrande to stop her and stun her long enough to at least raise Delaryn and Sira, and then have Tyrande kill the Val'kyr. This would make the Alliance side feel far less like failure, and more just not being able to save everyone, which is far more reasonable.
Yeah I read about the changes, but I would like to see in game some of the fallen Night Elves wisp being rescued before they are turned into Dark Rangers. While we might not be able to rez them (which I would prefer) at least allow Tyrande and the player characters to send their souls off to Elune.
10/28/2018 10:03 PMPosted by Amadis
I want this so bad, too. Especially given the one piece of information we have about the Night Warrior before this:Necklace with Elune Pendant
Elune is the primary goddess of the night elves. She is associated with the larger of the two moons, the White Lady. While she is a goddess of peace, she is not a pacifist. One of her aspects is the Night Warrior, who takes the valiant among the dead and sets them riding across the sky as stars.
I proposed the following change on the PTR Forums: As Tyrande and Malfurion are fighting Nathanos, have Tyrande cast a spell on Night Elf corpses that does what the description reads above as: Have their souls come out and fly off into the sky Team Rocket style and have their corpses despawn, having Tyrande save them from the Forsaken one by one until only Delaryn and Sira's corpses remain. Then when Tyrande goes to channel her saving spell on Delaryn, then have the Val'kyr use mind control spell on Tyrande to stop her and stun her long enough to at least raise Delaryn and Sira, and then have Tyrande kill the Val'kyr. This would make the Alliance side feel far less like failure, and more just not being able to save everyone, which is far more reasonable.
Both sound fair. It would lend credence to the whole "sending spirits into the night sky as stars," aspect of Elune and the Night Warrior. Oh the things that could have been.
Another call for Night Elves to be super people.
Yes, Tyrande is a 10,000 year plus old Priestess of Elune, but for the bulk of that period between the War of the Ancients and the landing of the Horde on Kalimdor, she wasn't called to any major challenges. (Lore doesn't even place her in the War of the Sands in which Fandral Staghelm was a major participant) That equates to 10,000 years of stagnation.
Being tamed down from the xenophobic fanatics of WC3 is part of the price you make to have a player race that can actually work with the Alliance as opposed to shooting at them... and to have player characters that are balanced with the rest.
As for the Night Warrior's failure. It was pre-ordained. it's not up to the NPC's to resolve the crisses of the expansion, that is the job of the Player Hero. Same thing applies to Elune as well.
Saurfang vs. Malfurion. Saurfang is the most formidable warrior on Azeroth right now, the only being to have conquered both Orgrimmar and Stormwind, and a veteran of the wars on Draenor on top of that. He's also shifty and crafty and simply better at both regular and guerilla warfare than Malfurion. Given that Malfurion was totally focused on Sylvannas at the time, it's not that hard to imagine Orc Warrior Supreme gettin the drop on him.
We were not demigods in Legion. We were heroes gifted with mighty artifact weapons that became even more powerful as we used them. We also sacrificed the bulk of that power to save Azeroth from the Blade of Sargeras, so we're back to being very mortal Champions instead.
Yes, Tyrande is a 10,000 year plus old Priestess of Elune, but for the bulk of that period between the War of the Ancients and the landing of the Horde on Kalimdor, she wasn't called to any major challenges. (Lore doesn't even place her in the War of the Sands in which Fandral Staghelm was a major participant) That equates to 10,000 years of stagnation.
Being tamed down from the xenophobic fanatics of WC3 is part of the price you make to have a player race that can actually work with the Alliance as opposed to shooting at them... and to have player characters that are balanced with the rest.
As for the Night Warrior's failure. It was pre-ordained. it's not up to the NPC's to resolve the crisses of the expansion, that is the job of the Player Hero. Same thing applies to Elune as well.
Saurfang vs. Malfurion. Saurfang is the most formidable warrior on Azeroth right now, the only being to have conquered both Orgrimmar and Stormwind, and a veteran of the wars on Draenor on top of that. He's also shifty and crafty and simply better at both regular and guerilla warfare than Malfurion. Given that Malfurion was totally focused on Sylvannas at the time, it's not that hard to imagine Orc Warrior Supreme gettin the drop on him.
We were not demigods in Legion. We were heroes gifted with mighty artifact weapons that became even more powerful as we used them. We also sacrificed the bulk of that power to save Azeroth from the Blade of Sargeras, so we're back to being very mortal Champions instead.
10/31/2018 08:37 AMPosted by DrahlianaAnother call for Night Elves to be super people.
Don't worry Drahliana, the PTR changes that have been made already have Tyrande nuking an entire Forsaken outpost and making Nathanos look like a chump.
10/31/2018 09:05 AMPosted by Amadis10/31/2018 08:37 AMPosted by DrahlianaAnother call for Night Elves to be super people.
Don't worry Drahliana, the PTR changes that have been made already have Tyrande nuking an entire Forsaken outpost and making Nathanos look like a chump.
But had Sylvanas been there instead of Tyrande I'm sure Blizzard would have made her obliterate anyone who opposed her.
I can almost see Sylvanas soloing the entire alliance leaders. But of course when it comes to Night Elves our leaders cant be allowed to shine.
10/31/2018 09:29 AMPosted by NightlighterBut had Sylvanas been there instead of Tyrande I'm sure Blizzard would have made her obliterate anyone who opposed her.I can almost see Sylvanas soloing the entire alliance leaders. But of course when it comes to Night Elves our leaders cant be allowed to shine.
When has anything like this ever happened? She 1v1 Genn in Legion, and 'won' because Genn took the arrow to get the Lantern, and she is stunned by Malfurion when Saurfang shows up and gives him the axe from behind.
10/31/2018 09:46 AMPosted by Mellow10/31/2018 09:29 AMPosted by NightlighterBut had Sylvanas been there instead of Tyrande I'm sure Blizzard would have made her obliterate anyone who opposed her.I can almost see Sylvanas soloing the entire alliance leaders. But of course when it comes to Night Elves our leaders cant be allowed to shine.
When has anything like this ever happened? She 1v1 Genn in Legion, and 'won' because Genn took the arrow to get the Lantern, and she is stunned by Malfurion when Saurfang shows up and gives him the axe from behind.
After all her sudden power ups she is seen doing things that she couldn't before. Look at her new Banshee mode in the cinematic.
Anyway I find it distasteful to have a patch called Rides Tides of Vengance and not allowing us to feel it.
Nathanos should not have been there in the first place because all his presence does is to spoil Tyrande's moment.
10/31/2018 10:08 AMPosted by NightlighterAfter all her sudden power ups she is seen doing things that she couldn't before. Look at her new Banshee mode in the cinematic. Anyway I find it distasteful to have a patch called Rides Tides of Vengance and not allowing us to feel it.
Ok, I kind of see what you're saying. Tyrande might get a good cinematic though.
10/31/2018 10:08 AMPosted by NightlighterNathanos should not have been there in the first place because all his presence does is to spoil Tyrande's moment.
This is... probably true. They could have gone without pitting Nathanos against Tyrande. But really, everything in bfa starts off feeling good and then just ends in very soft impotence.
10/31/2018 10:08 AMPosted by Nightlighter
Anyway I find it distasteful to have a patch called Rides Tides of Vengance and not allowing us to feel it.
Blizzard feels that the alliance having the moral high ground is more important than savoring vengence.
10/31/2018 10:20 AMPosted by Mellow10/31/2018 10:08 AMPosted by NightlighterAfter all her sudden power ups she is seen doing things that she couldn't before. Look at her new Banshee mode in the cinematic. Anyway I find it distasteful to have a patch called Rides Tides of Vengance and not allowing us to feel it.
Ok, I kind of see what you're saying. Tyrande might get a good cinematic though.10/31/2018 10:08 AMPosted by NightlighterNathanos should not have been there in the first place because all his presence does is to spoil Tyrande's moment.
This is... probably true. They could have gone without pitting Nathanos against Tyrande. But really, everything in bfa starts off feeling good and then just ends in very soft impotence.
True.
I like the changes to 8.1and if they were really made in response to feedback players gave I must congratulate Blizzard for listening.
But, even after those changes there's just something that doesn't feel quit right about watching Tyrande and Malfurion powerless to stop Nathanos' plans.
Part of me is tempted to just let it pass but on the other hand it's always the same deal regarding elves and I just wish it to stop.
10/31/2018 10:57 AMPosted by NightlighterTrue.I like the changes to 8.1and if they were really made in response to feedback players gave I must congratulate Blizzard for listening.But, even after those changes there's just something that doesn't feel quit right about watching Tyrande and Malfurion powerless to stop Nathanos' plans.Part of me is tempted to just let it pass but on the other hand it's always the same deal regarding elves and I just wish it to stop.
I'm pretty optimistic that they will have some satisfying developments at some point. I guess the many letdowns make the satisfying ones better? Sometimes anyway.
10/31/2018 10:57 AMPosted by NightlighterTrue.
I like the changes to 8.1and if they were really made in response to feedback players gave I must congratulate Blizzard for listening.
But, even after those changes there's just something that doesn't feel quit right about watching Tyrande and Malfurion powerless to stop Nathanos' plans.
Part of me is tempted to just let it pass but on the other hand it's always the same deal regarding elves and I just wish it to stop.
I'm more allright with that situation now that the framing has been shifted quite a bit. Its more apparent that Nathanos is just barely able to stall long enough for the ritual to complete, even with him being a higher tier of undead (which he is) and two prime Val'kyr backing him (one of which they lose).
Its a good measurement of Tyrande's strength, and she's certainly one heck of a juggernaut now (and will likely only improve as she has more time to get a better handle on using her new power, this ain't DBZ ... learning is important), but she's also not so absurd that she's about to Solo the entire Horde on her own.
I'm also not convinced that Malf is recovered from having a 100 pound greataxe lodged into his back just yet, which would explain the Bear Form. The dude took a pretty serious hit, and he's rarely relied on shapeshifting for combat before ... so it makes sense that he's not at 100 percent strength.
So, a few things.
I love the Kaldorei, I find them a unique take on the classic elf trope. However I think you lack a realistic expectation of what should be done with them. Many Kaldorei fans seem to block out a lot of information, and jump straight into being a fan boy...
Anduin did not raise his entire army, if we can even consider the cinematic canon (Considering that it pretty much is contradicted by SOL), you can clearly see that he only raised the vanguard of the army, a few hundred at best...And among that number we have no idea how many were just wounded or actually dead...and they were freshly dead at that. The Kaldorei in War of Thorns were spread out over the forests, and where the fighting is thickest I doubt Tyrande would find much time to heal between sending arrows the Banshee's way.
Say what you want, but War Of Thorns only had one major narrative issue: Sending the whole Kaldorei army to Silithus. Malfurian was busy fighting Sylvanas, and what not having the easiest time of it. Saurfang not being noticed isn't exactly unrealistic.
What is unrealistic is the apparent gold standard Fanboys give the Night Elves. They should never lose, their heroes should lead the Alliance by virtue of age only, their military is unstoppable, blah blah blah.
Give me a declining elven empire trying to redefine itself while still being true to who they are in a rapidly changing, possibly dying world. Between the Novella's and the War Of Thorns, the Kaldorei got some interesting plot development. I hope they continue to expand upon it.
I'm not going to go into much of the of your insane ramblings. I'm not gonna pretend ever Kaldorei story lately has been fantastic...but there is a point where it's unhealthy to care this much.
I love the Kaldorei, I find them a unique take on the classic elf trope. However I think you lack a realistic expectation of what should be done with them. Many Kaldorei fans seem to block out a lot of information, and jump straight into being a fan boy...
Anduin did not raise his entire army, if we can even consider the cinematic canon (Considering that it pretty much is contradicted by SOL), you can clearly see that he only raised the vanguard of the army, a few hundred at best...And among that number we have no idea how many were just wounded or actually dead...and they were freshly dead at that. The Kaldorei in War of Thorns were spread out over the forests, and where the fighting is thickest I doubt Tyrande would find much time to heal between sending arrows the Banshee's way.
Say what you want, but War Of Thorns only had one major narrative issue: Sending the whole Kaldorei army to Silithus. Malfurian was busy fighting Sylvanas, and what not having the easiest time of it. Saurfang not being noticed isn't exactly unrealistic.
What is unrealistic is the apparent gold standard Fanboys give the Night Elves. They should never lose, their heroes should lead the Alliance by virtue of age only, their military is unstoppable, blah blah blah.
Give me a declining elven empire trying to redefine itself while still being true to who they are in a rapidly changing, possibly dying world. Between the Novella's and the War Of Thorns, the Kaldorei got some interesting plot development. I hope they continue to expand upon it.
I'm not going to go into much of the of your insane ramblings. I'm not gonna pretend ever Kaldorei story lately has been fantastic...but there is a point where it's unhealthy to care this much.
10/31/2018 11:54 AMPosted by DemontêI'm not gonna pretend ever Kaldorei story lately has been fantastic...but there is a point where it's unhealthy to care this much.
Unfortunately I often find that when you take a tone like this you get to a point where you don't sound like you're participating in a conversation, rather you come off as just dismissing how people feel, which ironically very easily allows people to dismiss whatever points you were actually trying to make.
10/31/2018 11:28 AMPosted by DroitéI'm also not convinced that Malf is recovered from having a 100 pound greataxe lodged into his back just yet, which would explain the Bear Form. The dude took a pretty serious hit, and he's rarely relied on shapeshifting for combat before ... so it makes sense that he's not at 100 percent strength.
I love Malfurion's bear form! But I am super curious to why he's taking it now when we've never seen him take it before. He's always been more of a Balance Druid, or, heck, sometimes he comes off more as a Shaman, with his storm based powers.
I wonder if it's psychological, like he switched specs for more physical defense out of caution now the way someone who recently got stabbed might start wearing gear that would protect more against knives.