what i dont understand are the people making suggestions to an non-existant support team for a game that was released and supported 15 years ago.
it’s not 2005
this game is an artifact served “as is”. if you dont like it, you’re free to either stop whining, or take a time machine back to 2005 and petition blizzard
The answer is a matchmaking system that at least attempts to match people with similar win rates and performance. Have it start strict and get more lax as time goes by so no one has a long wait for a match.
So, for example, if someone wins a game they go up a bit in ranking. They get matched to people with a similar win rate. They get more challenging games and can’t overrun people who don’t win as easily. The people who premade will tend to do better and will match with other premades.
Now, this is a bit simplified. I would include some performance adjustments for how well someone does in a BG even if their team wins or loses. And some obfuscation/long-term measures so people have a tougher time gaming the system.
This idea is used a ton in many games and is well-researched. It works much better than a naive group-forming system like we have now.
What are you implying here? How is this relevant to premades in WSG and AB?
There’s a current thread live right now with someone complaining that cross realm players are communicating via discord. If you make queuing solo more attractive than facing full premade death squads, do you not expect the possibility that the meta will shift into the other direction?
this game is 15 years old. it doesnt have a matchmaking system.
if that bothers you, you can go back to retail where they are supporting and balancing around features like this
I mean, the previous changes that were made to BGs already disproves your ‘non-existent support team/game is an artifact served “as is”’ thesis already.
They’ve already made some changes to BGs, and I fully expect more to come down the pike.
It would appear, what I stated went completely over your head. Unless of course you are talking about the millisecond, it would take the software to determine "no match found, now pairing with random que.
I understand very clearly you are not trying to rank, that couldn’t be more clear.
However, if you are playing casually, why are you so adamant about keeping this the way it is, makes no sense.
I certainly wouldnt be found on a raiding forums complaining about things I dont actively use, unless of course I was a troll I suppose.
are you conflating minor admin type changes like removing bg numbers to the complete redesign of a complex matchmaking system?
the tiny support team is here to keep the lights on, not redesign a 15 year old game. if you dont enjoy this 15 year old game, there are plenty of other games out there for you to enjoy.
Tell me how my own reasoning to not push high ranks contradicts my view that this version should not be changed into something new instead of representing something old.
I don’t fish in game either, does that mean I don’t have a say in allowing fishing to be modernised?
If anything, I understand what ranking involves and I’ve told myself no thanks, that doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the ranking system for what it is and wish for it to be changed.
I’ve found acceptance but you haven’t.
You’re mistaken here. I’m not advocating for full separation of premades and pugs. I do think that would make solo queuing as attractive as premade queuing.
But that’s not what I’m talking about. If you make premades more likely to face premades, then yes their HPH rates will likely decline from around 8-9k to say 7k.
But there’s no way that anybody who just plays solo would be able to match that. Pug v pug games are extremely slow in both AB and WSG compared to premade games; you end up with a lot of 20 minute AB games or even longer than that; WSG games with bad comps (no healers many a game or too much melee). Solo players probably average around 4k HPH on horde side right now. Maybe that goes up to 5k.
Premade v premade games typically resolve themselves fast, there’s gentlemen rules like first cap takes all 3 or teams that give up all the AB flags. I’ve done both, and premades won’t be threatened much imo.
Sure, I’m following you. What about the full premade groups who are made up of casual guildies who are not much better than a pug? I know they exist, some of who that I have faced are arguably much less skilled than the average pug.
I’d say their decline would be much more severe than what you suggest.
Probably, but the worst premades (Atiesh had one atrocious premade with 2 FMs rolling around last night that I beat all 3 times I faced them with pugs; I’m honestly not sure how they were winning any games at all) are already losing a lot anyhow.
Those types of trade chat premades probably shouldn’t exist. A couple guildees wanting to play together is one thing.
If increased matching with the better premades is what to be expected, I’m sure you’d see the more casual grouping die off entirely.
Skill matching is the only real answer in my opinion and Classic doesn’t feature that.
Go BaCk To ReTaIl
Ahh the “intelligent” response we were all hoping for. We are also using the Retail client and servers with layering and patches that never existed in Vanilla. Should we all just give up and never play Classic?
Oh, I get it. The answer is for people to only premade when they do BG. Anyone who doesn’t have time to form a premade group should forget about BG because it’ll just be loss after loss.
It’s just like twinking, it becomes only twinks in certain BG because otherwise you can’t play. Then games become only twink vs twink and everyone just wasted their money.
Blizzard has these algorithms, they use them in many of their games. They simply need to apply them to Classic BG and the majority of people will have a much improved experience.
So go troll elsewhere. We really don’t care about your blathering about Retail.
Yeah, I mean I’m not really even that concerned at this point, I’ve noticed a decline in the overall skill of the top premades now that the “best” (or tryhardiest) players have already gotten their HWL/GM titles and stopped queuing.
There’s still those top premades that will use 100g of consumables in a few minutes to guarantee easy curb-stompings, but we’re not too far from the point where that won’t be the norm.
And like I said earlier, I think AQ coming out will help a ton in terms of providing better gear opportunities outside of PVP for non-main tier specs.
The Naxx examples are imo a red herring, nobody is going to be running 12 hour premades in Naxx gear. Like what would even be the point?
If you have a full twinked Naxx 60, just join some BGs solo or with a healer and blow some people up. No point to running 12 hours of the grind that the current rankers are running.
But the issue with premades vs pugs is not a skill issue. It’s no different than the matching system matching by level ranges and not sticking everyone in the same queue. It’s something the system can very easily look at at say hey maybe these two teams shouldn’t be matched together.
I can agree that it will get better as time passes. That’s why it’s my belief that it’s better to ride it out and leave the system to behave as is instead of risking new complications.
Enhance gear, nah I kid.
you’re right, it’s far more intelligent to shake your fist at the sky and whine and complain about a video game you don’t like playing yet keep playing it. a well adjusted person would acknowledge this product wasn’t for them, and they’d find another one. you’ll get there eventually.
yes…and whats the issue? It’s a team v team multiplayer game mode. people want to be in teams to enjoy it. if you don’t enjoy it, don’t play it.
you only waste money by choice.
yes let’s copy paste matchmaking from starcraft. genius idea. it’s not going to happen. this is how vanilla worked.
if you don’t like classic, dont play classic.
Exactly this. Bucketing by level is just a clumsy attempt to separate people by gear and character strength. It could be done in a better manner by getting rid of the brackets and using a smarter matchmaking system. Then you would have less of the “only queue at the top of the bracket” mentality which reduces participation.
If you grouped by skill/gear and matched by that then the overall experience would improve. It would naturally handle twinking, grouping, and gearing issues. People with more skill, organization, gear would tend to get fun, challenging battles and newer people would have a chance to learn without getting steamrolled.
Ahh, again with the overblown statements. Are you a politician running for office?
Having a conversation about how to improve a system is far from “whine and complain”. But thanks for playing and showing your troll colors. I don’t waste time with those types so bye.
a conversation implies dialogue with blizzard.
no. you’re whining and complaining outside a building like an entitled child and no one is listening.
if you dont like classic, dont play classic. go back to retail and enjoy your 120 lock bro 