To the people who are anti #pulltheripcord

Community General Discussion
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They will ‘balance’ the Covenants if they’re a brainless change-out thing just like talents. That means they won’t be fun or do anything interesting because some meta slave will cry about it, same as talents.

This is because you consider anyone thinking for themselves ‘selfish’ because they won’t give up their enjoyment and desires and whatever for yours. I don’t care if try-hards are mad or don’t like it. They don’t care if I like it and keep pushing this meme of “it won’t change anything, dude trust me”.

Nope, it’s made the right way and Blizzard is correct to stick by their guns on it. You just have to accept that you aren’t getting your way.

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Just like pre-pots, weapon oils (which are returning), talents, gear those are things you can choose and take to optimise your performance. The suggestion to pull the ripcord makes covenants on the same level as those.

I would rather them remain as something you choose the way you do when you choose your class.

I understand your point of view but I don’t agree with it. If Kyrian is going to work better for a raid boss, why would I stick to Venthyr for it? It would be selfish to not change and then change back.

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Covenants in gameplay are utterly irrelevant in lore.

Covenants in lore are basically factions. There is no difference lore-wise between joining the Night Fae and simply helping out Ardenweald. The only difference is one of gameplay, where you get to see half of Ardenweald’s story and you don’t.

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Yet you still see people play Alliance despite the disadvantages and advantages of being in it.

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True, but it depends on your server and/or region.

Playing anything Horde on OCE is basically trolling, whereas the inverse is true for NA realms.

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They are already balancing the covenants now do you not see the major nerfs and buffs across the board? I also don’t consider people thinking for themselves a bad thing case in point I play a MM hunter thats my personal choice as I prefer it over bm and survival even though it ranks lower on the tier list and thats my meaningful choice to do so. Yet if I wanted to do so I could switch. You seem to think that a forced commitment is meaningful I would say meaningful is having the ability to change but sticking to your choice. Best example is my wife I could go date other women I have that option but I dont cause I stick to my meaningful choice of her

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Fair point.

So I’ll shift this to something we already see in the game. Are you content with struggling to find groups for certain dungeons because the Covenant you chose is weakest?

This will only compound that; it’s present in testing, it’s going to be there in live. I’m going to go out on a limb and say a lot of players won’t be happy that their Covenant isn’t wanted, that their ‘meaningful choice’ was detrimental to their experience in the expansion.

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That’s true (as OCE Horde).

I guess a lot of the opinions we have here are based on our own experiences, for me it’s just been playing the game for fun and doing Heroic raid and casually +15s.

If I separate myself from the equation and think of people absolutely planning to max out everything (high PvP, super high mythic, etc) then yes it would be disruptive to my playstyle to feel locked into a covenant. I concede that.

That’s fair also, yes if selecting a covenant causes that level of disruption to a players ability to complete content then yes.

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I look at the meaningful choice arguement as flawed just because you have the option to change doesn’t make your choice any less meaningful. I chose my wife I could date other women but I don’t because I made a meaningful choice

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Sure but even going by that logic if you could choose one of four wives at a whim depending on how you feel, might make them feel like you haven’t committed to them. :stuck_out_tongue:

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Because the community will make the choice for you. SO if you REALLY like an ability because of how gamers are in 2020 you will NOT be invited or a guild master might REQUIRE you to change covenant…which DIRECTLY goes against the purpose of the mmorpg. I am not saying Blizz is perfect on this either but if this simple logical question makes no sense…nothing will.

If you had a button where you could change to the optimal class every fight…do you think it would “required” to swap class per fight if the ease of access was there.

I believe so.

(sorry for ramble)

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I dunno the one I chose I would hope would feel more special as out of the options I picked her :rofl:. Serious note though I do wanna thank people for keeping this conversation an actual civil conversation and not a f you nah f you scenario

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That’s fair :slight_smile:

I’ve had a pleasant discussion with you. I hope they read your thread and make the decision they feel is correct. :pray:

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Says who though? I play a MM hunter still raid at a mythic level amd get my 15 done despite MM being bottom of the tier and yes I can easily change spec but I don’t. If you feel the presure of other people and allow that to make a choice for you then that speaks more to your character than anything else. Also don’t be sorry for a ramble I asked a genuine question and want genuine replies

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I try and consider the other side.

But having played the beta, experienced the story and the mechanics of Covenants, I’m just thoroughly unimpressed by the system as a whole.

Faction locks really only work in a story if it’s a zero sum situation. Pirates and Booty Bay is a good example of this in gameplay, where those factions were hostile to each other (for both explained and implied reasons).

If I kill a Pirate, that makes Booty Bay happy and for obvious reasons, the Pirates unhappy. The inverse is true, I kill a Booty Bay Goblin and the pirates love that. The goblins…Not so much.

This is easy to understand from a gameplay perspective and the faction stances are adequately laid out in explained and implied reasons.

But Covenants aren’t that. Covenants are more along the lines of the Valajar trying to monopolize you and then immediately sending you out to go dunk on Xavius or help out the Highmountain.

All of these factions have different motives and methods, but share the same common goal in healing the Shadowlands. The Venthyr have no motive for seeing the Night Fae weaken, nor do Kyrians have some sort of hatred against Revendreth.

At least among playable factions. There are parts of each zone in that aren’t allied with the players of course.

And naturally, I don’t need to elaborate on why the actual gameplay side of Covenants is looking like a dumpster fire.

I think my core disagreement with the “meaningful choice” idea is that somehow committal is mandatory for the choice to be meaningful.

I like all three Warlock specs, and with their strengths and weaknesses, where I play each one is a meaningful decision, whether it be Destro on two target, cleave style fights, or Affliction on ST, or Demo on tightly stacked, frequent AoE.

I don’t need to only play Destro to appreciate it’s strengths and weaknesses. And hey, maybe Sniffed’s wife would be fine with being in a harem. We don’t judge here.

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Nobody wants the covenants to be talents. Just the class abilities that are largely completely unrelated to their covenants. They feel like regular class abilities that shouldn’t even have anything to do with covenants. People want to chose the covenants they actually like, not the covenant that offers the most interesting ability to play with.

This “might as well just have freely swappable classes” is by far the most insane strawman used in these discussions.

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How is this any different to now?

If you’re playing the “wrong” spec or class, people will actively avoid playing with you unless there’s reason for them not to.

I’m 480ilvl, 12/12M and have at least an adequate RIO score, and I get knocked back from M+ groups all the time purely because people don’t want Warlocks. The idea that pugs are just going to go “oh, he picked Necrolord because he liked the faction. It’s not as good as Venthyr but we’ll take him anyway” is silly.

It doesn’t mean that it’ll be impossible to do, hell, people have killed M N’zoth as SV and MM. But it will be a lot harder for the average player who picks the wrong covenant to join a group and compete.

Also comparing Covenants to class is a little disingenuous. They’re not that impactful.

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Apparently my asking you if having the option to change made a decision you made less impactful was offensive and flagged :rofl::rofl:

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Damn, people will actually try to anihilate everything they disagree with nowadays.

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I contend that it doesn’t have much enjoyment for many of us, as is

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