I’m pretty sure Horde faction greatly outnumbering the Alliance faction can be measured, and is factual.
Even before premades were a thing, the first week of AV, when everyone was gunning for AV Rep and Honor, Horde still have a queue time compared to Alliance instant q’s. This is the time when even PvE’ers were prevailant because they wanted the AV rep gear.
So this would’ve been the best indicator of the faction imbalance, given that it’s when Alliance AV’ed the most. The increase in Q times can be attributed to other variables, but the fact that Horde have Q times at all is a direct correlation of the faction imbalance.
If they willingly refuse to reroll when the imbalance is very clear, then it’s on them for having the imbalance problem.
Aside from literally forcing horde players to go alliance, there is nothing blizzard can do. If people want to flood the horde, then they will. It is 100% at fault of the players rolling horde.
If you’re ok with the negatives of this to play horde then fine! But anyone who is horde and is complaining about the imbalance (i.e. q times for bgs) are simply morons.
You might as well just shoot your toe off and then complain on the forums that you only have 9 toes.
Im 100% not pissed in the slightest honey bee. This will have 0 effect in how I play the game. Idc if I win or lose AVs at all. I get fast q times and I can q when I want so I’m good. I’m sitting on this topic as a neutral party just laughing at all the horde crying about a problem they literally made
I dont think anyone is crying. But it is adorable they actually had to make an in game fix specifically to help the alliance stop abusing a very linear bg. Honestly I think it’s funny more than anything.
Here’s the rub, are you talking about pop imbalance in pvp or in general.
In general, pop appeared to be relatively equal through the first couple months. If that has changed, it’s hard to find data on it.
Now if you’re talking about pvp, sure more horde are playing than alliance, but that doesn’t magically make it a horde created problem.
Who is to say what is or is not an appropriate amount of pvp to play?
The stated problem is horde queue times. The solutions are for less horde to play, or more ally to play. Both would solve the issue. There are a variety of ways to fix that, some of which could be implemented by Blizzard and some that require players to change their habits.
If we’re saying horde created the problem via their habits, couldn’t we similarly say that Ally are creating the problem with their habits?
Are you talking about population generally across all servers, or just in terms of pvp? If you’re talking about the former, I actually would like to see the data on that. All the current sources seem to not be able to guarantee accuracy.
Yes. Yes it does. The alliance can’t make more alliance. If the horde are massively overtaking the alliance in terms of numbers, there is only one fix, and that is to go alliance.
If you’re playing csgo and one team has 10 people on it and the other only has one, you don’t put any blame on that single player on the other team, and you don’t blame the people who don’t want to play csgo because they aren’t joining his team. It is at the fault of the people refusing to leave the team with 10 players on it. Period.
There is nothing blizzard can do to make you go alliance. The only possible solution would be faction change but even still, that requires more players to not have the ‘someone else will leave’ mentality that was proven in the server xfers early on. But even still faction changes simply doesn’t work with vanilla. There are too many horde specific and alliance specific variables that come into play. They knew what classic was coming in and they voluntarily flooded one faction because of world pvp.
If you are ignorant to this fact then you haven’t been here long.
For one, let me see this ‘data’.
For two. Look at horde q times it’s fairly obvious bud lol.
And third, let’s just assume it is perfectly 50/50 split. And all the pvpers just went horde so this is how the problem came about. You can’t put the blame on people ‘not’ quing bgs. That’s astronomically dumb. If they don’t want to pvp, then they don’t want to pvp, they are completely removed from this issue at hand.
Just like I said before if you are in a csgo lobby where it’s 10v1 you don’t blame the people who ‘could’ be playing csgo to join the other team.
Ok, so since we’re specifically talking about PVP, or AV in this case, let’s narrow it down to the factors that affect these environments.
I suppose we could generalize it to just PvP, rather than split it between AV and WSG, although there are PvE player elements in AV that we could consider, but it’s likely a minor difference.
Most PvE players seem to choose Alliance, so you essentially have an even smaller Alliance PvP pool. With that, if PvE’ers just want to PvE, you can’t really force them to PvP. So you have to count them out.
So if we take only those who are interested in PvP, let’s just assume that they are indeed, Q’ing up for pvp whenever they can. So with that, we will assume that on both sides, all Horde and Alliance PvPers are Q’ing up as often as they can for BGs.
The main variable in that scenario are the amount of people on each faction, which is the variable that causes the Q times. It’s clear that there are more Horde Pvpers than Alliance. This is something we can establish, yes?
So for example, assuming constant qs on both sides, and due to the imbalance, we may have 10,000 PvPing Alliance, and 20,000 PvPing Horde. Just throwing numbers out but you get the picture. All things equal, the overpopulation of one faction is the direct cause of a Q problem.
We can say that no one intended to cause the problem, but there is a problem, nonetheless.
The ONLY way you can correct this, is to move the higher PvP pop over to the lower PvP pop. But how can this be accomplished other than the High pop faction making that choice? Blizzard cannot force anyone to change factions.
The solution is pretty clear. If one side refuses to accept the solution, then essentially, they are perpetuating the issue, the long Q times remain.
By that. I mean those alliance and horde players who wanted wpvp could have congregated on the same server.
Guilds could have banded together did our own censuses and tried to keep a balance.
The community could have worked this balance out.
The people who shouldn’t have rolled pvp servers could have picked a /wave pvp server. This group alone destroyed the balance because they were the ones complaining.
The ERP’ers all congregated on Moonguard. Why can’t other like minded players organize like that for the sake of real wpvp and balance?
Nope. All we cared about was stacking servers because we know the pop eventually falls off and tried avoiding (oh get this) a non english speaking community who were trying to congregate on a server.
There’s 2 examples of like minded groups of players coming together.
Yet you mock me because I suggest we could also do this for balance? It can be done. We have to do it.
This problem is dynamic. It’s always going to be there. It’s still on retail. But hey. Keep crying for blizz to fix it. Instead of organizing this herd of cats.
Well maybe get all of the allies who actually want to pvp on one or two of the stacked horde servers and commence to throwing down.
What i really wish is alliance would do this and make some of the Horde who should have rolled pve (yea there’s a bunch over here who didn’t sign up for the pvp either but they’re protected cuz numbers. Yup they shoulda rolled pve servers too) roll pve.
That’s going to require you all to organize though. /shrug Just how I see it.
Uhhh bud… that’s what pvp servers were made for. Players who wanted to world pvp. They can’t all fit on one server. Not to mention this is such a ridiculous thing to suggest as if everyone would work together like this lol, but even IF they did, it would still be majority horde… because most pvpers wanted to flood the horde.
Bud, there is nothing the alliance could have done to help achieve this. The only thing that could have made this true is if more horde players went alliance. Period. They didn’t. So now they have this issue.
The data from a while back was from wowhead aggregated data in September.
It wasn’t perfect but it was likely a close approximation, and even if not completely accurate you’d need a massive missed population to tip the numbers to one side a huge amount. The only set of servers with a major imbalance seemed to be RU servers, leaning alliance.
Now, if we confine ourselves to PvP populations, yes, more horde want to pvp at the moment.
The primary problem with the entire thrust of your “this is a horde created problem” assertion is this:
Why are we confining ourselves to only those who want to pvp?
You’re trying to apply different standards to things that could potentially solve the queue problem which can all be grouped under player behavior.
How is proposing horde reroll as ally or horde play less (behavioral changes) any different from proposing that more non-pvp ally start and continue to play pvp?
They’re all behavioral changes in the populace. I could just as easily lay the blame for queues on pve-ing Ally who refuse to step into BGs. If inaction on the part of horde is “creating the problem,” doesn’t inaction on the part of ally do the same?
My core point is there are a variety of factors that led to the long queues, and most of those factors are inherent to the game itself and the natural sorting players do.
To that end, the queues are not a “horde created” problem.
You could call it a Blizzard created problem or a WoW created problem, but once you drill down to the population factions, there are more solutions than just “horde should reroll,” and a number of those solutions are not entirely on the horde.
If you honestly are asking yourself this question you need to step away from this argument. You do not push responsibility or blame toward a crowd who is not participating in a certain aspect of the game. That’s beyond childish and ignorant.
Just like I said, if you q a csgo lobby with people who just want to play the fps and 10 players go to one side and one goes the other you don’t blame others for not playing csgo to join the other team.
I know that and you know that. That’s not what happened though is it? We got stacked on both sides with people who had no intentions of pvp. Trust me if you could turn the tables some of these horde would have rerolled or went to pve as well as the alliance.
Yea I know. When I said 2 servers it was a jab in bad taste at your side having less players truly interested in pvp.
I jest about it. Truth is there are a lot of allies who love pvp. You’re just spread too thin and you guys need to concentrate on a few servers.
Dude. Ive listed 2 examples of like minded wow communities coming together. Do I really need to tell you like minded people have done this throughout history? It can be done. Takes effort.
Lol. Ok back to my point of “like minded players congregating on some servers”. There’s still pvp’ers over there.
Come on man. I’m going to make the same joke. You only need 1 server than. That makes this a less daunting task!
All joking aside. It can be done. There has to be a want and effort put into it.
I mean for bloody sake you all should want real vengeance in the form of real pvp for P2. Feed off that!
Id love to see it because it’s community. It’s why we wanted Vanilla back and to see what’s happened with it? Saddens me because the community can overcome this but it’s about us and screw community…not what this was supposed to be about man. Community…
That makes this a less daunting task!