yeah, not sure whats so complicated about this but ambiguity in forum rules is just asking for abuses and biases.
‘trolling’ and ‘inappropriate’ are two of the worst examples for rules Ive ever seen…TOTALLY open to interpretation and personal bias.
honestly, dont hold your breath on that one. Im sure you see the ongoing behavioral issues and projection in this thread alone.
Likely tied to the vote kick issue directly or indirectly, Id think.
totally agree.
They keep saying the topic has been beaten to death, so why continue participating except to come in causing trouble?
The goal as in every other thread is to cause it to get locked or deleted. They do it every time and someone keeps letting them get away with it, so why would they stop?
That’s the exact word I used when describing them.
No good forum rules will ever… ever use the word “constructive”, and they do. It’s a generic catch-all statement that bad moderators use to justify infracting people for things they don’t like or as a fall back word they can use when they do not want to admit they made a mistake. Good moderators regularly interact with the community and will admit when they make mistakes. The community respects you a lot more because of it and people tend to behave more.
Then there’s the problem with inconsistency. Person A badgers, harasses people, gets flagged, nothing happens except MAYBE the thread gets deleted. Then Person B simply disagrees and gets a vacation. When Person B asks why what they did was bad and what Person A did wasn’t, they’re told “if you feel someone has broken the rules, please use the flag feature”. When I train a moderator, one of the first things I tell them is to “be consistent”. Being inconsistent makes you look very incompetent and wishy washy.
It’s pretty pathetic how this forum is supposed to be where feedback and suggestions are made, yet the people who say to post feedback on this forum have 0 issues coming in and shooting people down while citing policies that people are quite literally asking to be changed.
I learned years ago when I went on vacation and left my mods in charge for about 10 days that they will always let their biases determine what the rules ‘say’.
After that I got rid of them all and dont let anyone mod my forums again, or the ones I admin for others.
My rules are very short now.
Dont break the law. Dont attack anyone for how they are born. etc. Stuff that cant be easily confused like this ‘trolling’ joke that is totally open to personal interpretation and bias.
“Thanks for showing me exactly the policy that I want to see changed” is my reaction but then I’m told I can’t/didn’t read anything because my argument continues.
Blizzard sayeth therefore it shall be done apparently.
Notified of the flag and probably removed the offending post themselves.
Because they got flagged and instead of removing the post, they find out what they posted was actually a breach of the rules when they get a vacation and the mods remove the post.
And if we can just be real here… You don’t get actioned for an opposing opinion, you get actioned for being a tool while expressing your opinion.
I dont understand why some just dont avoid the thread / topic in the first place.
They think its been ‘beaten to death’…so the easy answer there is dont participate.
Bliz reps have told me to come here to this forum with my thoughts on the game…Im sure theyve said that to many others…Im not that special, lol
Then you have a certain group who doesnt like the topic so they spend entire threads doing what they do trying to get it shut down again
I’ve suggested many things in this thread and others. #3 I’ve specifically said more than once in this thread. If the players think the penalty of a 30 minute debuff is too high… Would that indicate a “systemic issue” that might need an adjustment? I don’t know what criteria you’re looking for as proof, but there are plenty of small issues that are creating an unpleasant gaming experience for regular folks.
No it’s not, Blizzard is preventing an initial vote kick. I don’t know how the background mechanics are “calculating” this but it feels like it has nothing to do with the person who is initiating and everything to do with the player that is trying to be vote kicked.
Have to look at the whole picture and re-evaluate. There are plenty of pieces that aren’t functioning correctly. Should a person backfilling in LFR have to queue again and suffer a deserter debuff for leaving content that they’re loot locked out of?
Queued content is not better for the changes that have been made recently and it has effected my desire (and probably others) to participate in it.
again…IF one is going to complain a topic has been ‘beaten to death’ then do the adult thing and dont participate instead of incessantly whining about it.
I mean that isn’t the expectation of people that want to air grievances. It is, however, the expectation of people who have seen a topic they don’t like and want it cracked down on because they are “so tired of it.”
I entirely agree that they are free to post their disagreements but if they were tired of it then they wouldn’t be drawn to it like moths to a flame. They aren’t tired of it. They want it derailed.
In their defense, most of the regulars I see in these threads who you guys think are against the threads and want them cracked down on are willing to listen to suggestions that make sense. Problem is twofold though
All the suggestions are the same, and they’ve all been debunked as viable solutions ad nauseam, yet they keep getting repeated in every single thread by most of the same people
Certain people on the “something needs to change” side, that may or may not be active in this thread right now, turn it intro a troll fest to begin with with their bad antics
Actually, for #1, let’s call it a vast majority of the suggestions, not all.
So no one’s tired of the threads about changing the system, per se, they’re tired of the same people calling for the same things over and over and over again when there have already been discussions about why those things don’t work, and it’s usually people like a certain Panda who cause the derailing, because with any pushback, they start turning it into a flame/troll fest like it’s become here with you guys making comments about people rather than ideas.
Correct, and that also applies to people other than yourself. Hence, these topics. Yet you seem to not want them to post their disagreements. What a shocker.
I agree that this topic of VTK has been beaten to death, so the only option for these players who have been kicked more than once unfairly is to do solo content instead. No more joining groups or guilds.
Another topic will come up if not already " Nobody will play with me. The WoW community is dead in Retail. Why is that ?
Blizzard will create more expansion in the future for solo players. That’s what WoW is turning into. If the Blizzard doesn’t fix VTK now, than WoW will turn into a solo game. No longer a MMO in the future for Retail. This is a rock and a hard place for Blizzard.
Yes, players don’t have put up with Trolls and unfair players don’t have to put up with VTK. There is no win win solution to this problem.
That poster knows exactly what was being said here. They keep complaining that the thread exists and then they keep posting in it. That’s the point and that poster knows it
Regardless of them claiming otherwise no one has told them they can’t disagree in here because this forum doesn’t belong to us.
But if they are going to complain that the topic has been beaten to death then they can make the adult choice not to participate.
As I said this is very easy math here. Don’t complain that the thread exists and then participate in it
I think if blizzard would get themselves together and stop playing games with follower dungeons and let it give the experience that we get from running random groups that follower dungeons will probably be used a lot more by solo players who are tired of putting up with player drama. As it stands you can’t use them for leveling because you just don’t get enough experience like you do running dungeons with a group
The way they’ve got it set up right now they’re still coercing you in a way to run dungeons with random players which is precisely where the problem resides
Personally what I’d like to see is the time out gone entirely.
There’s no reason to punish someone beyond the 15-minute timer for dungeons if they’ve already been kicked and punished by the group anyways that 30 minutes doesn’t stop trolls LOL
It only really affects the person who was playing legitimately trying to do some work with their character and they get kicked for no reason.
Then I think I would also like to see the vote kick changed so that maybe it takes three people initiating a kick as someone suggested above instead of just clicking yes
Another idea that I like personally is limiting our ability to initiate kicks.
Everybody from that side has admitted that this is a supposedly rare problem so if it’s so rare then they don’t need more than a couple kicks a day per daily reset. Maybe three
You can’t say that it’s rare and then turn around and say that you need more than three kicks per daily reset. That would literally be a contradiction
When I train a moderator, one of the first things I tell them is to “be consistent”. Being inconsistent makes you look very incompetent and wishy washy.