Title: A Serious Issue with Dungeon Vote Kick System and Player Toxicity

I know what it says and I also know the social contract says to treat other players with some courtesy. Being courteous does not include kicking someone who has done nothing wrong regardless of Blizzard’s turning a blind eye to the situation and allowing players to burn down the house.

That we have to be told to treat other players with some consideration is very telling. And it is something that on this particular forum I find quite odd

1 Like

Im being curious to the person who started the vote and the 2 others who also agree as you need four to agree.

No one has boycotted anything. Responding to your thread with factual information that goes against your made up drama isn’t “boycotting.”

People have also brought up a few things you continually ignore just to troll your own thread.

Honey, you’re the one that’s getting mad at people for having a different opinion and giving you information that goes against your made up stuff.

Look to thine own self.

And Hurte once again also returns to troll the thread in hopes that it gets shut down, too.

I have seen kicks for very flimsy reasons (tank not pulling fast enough, not enough dps) in normal/heroics/time walking dungeons.
At the end of the day, I’d log onto an alt for 30 minutes instead of coming to the forums to rant. The 30-minute ban only applies to that character. People will be people.

3 Likes

I think the problem here is that it leaves a bad taste in the mouth of new players when they see this kind of bad player behavior. So yeah they can sit it out but they might just quit paying to play the game and this community seems to be okay with not bringing in new players LOL well at least some of the community which thankfully they are a very small minority

A mentality that is appropriate in a 10 key but out of place in a leveling dungeon. Kind of like Karen raging on the high schooler that is flipping your burgers imo.

1 Like

If players are really kicking you out for not having enough DPS, in a TW, normal or heroic dungeon, then you must be quite something.

I’ve never seen a single occurrence of someone being vote kicked out of those types of dungeons strictly because they had low DPS. I have seen people kicked out for not doing enough or being useless because they were sitting around waiting too much before engaging, or not doing more than AA damage and just never really using spells.

And that’s not strictly low DPS, that’s them being, as you said, useless.

You, and everyone have to realise, you are not playing a single player game, you cannot go at your own pace and dilly dally while being with four other real life human beings. You have to go at the pace set by the other people in the dungeon and keep up with them and not fall behind or risk being kicked. Players don’t join dungeons with the expectations that someone in the group is going to go slow and take their sweet time.

But if you really are trying, if you are actually keeping up with the group and attempting to press your spells, but really are just that bad, that’s all on you. You need to get out of dungeons and question what you are doing wrong and why your DPS is that low in trivial content to warrant being kicked for low DPS so regularly.

1 Like

Yeah, except, that is not the case, is it? We’ve seen some new players come to the forums and ask about this, and they even think that the system is working as intended too, do they? :woman_facepalming:

1 Like

Exactly. If somebody is playing subpar and gets kicked from m+ well that’s just how it rolls

But if you’re kicking players in content that can be finished by three players that’s just for spite and giggles to waste their time that’s not something that needed to be done

1 Like

I’m pretty sure everyone here would agree with that, Lio.

Where we disagree is that this is happening in any significant volume.

1 Like

“you need four to agree”

Let me give you my complete and 100% assurances that this is NOT true. I have on several occasions declined a kick of another party member (for dumb reasons) and the kick has gone through. The threshold is most definitely lower than four.

1 Like

Yea, people should be forced to carry others

Else you’ll just agree that they’re “facists” again, right?

It depends on group composition. It’s 3 to 2 if everyone is solo. (3 to 1 in reality)

Needs the majority to agree. But in a party of 3, then you’ll need that 4th to agree for the kick to succeed.

1 Like

I see attempts often enough that are clearly just for a laugh. More often than I see afk’s or outright trolls being kicked.

Which is ironic because the person initiating most VtKs is probably the person that actually deserves a timeout but it’s the one form of trolling that we aren’t allowed to act on due to anonymity.

I also find it ironic that people who complain about the downstream effects of anonymity so often don’t see how that applies in this one particular situation.

3 Likes

I mean this genuinely, I’m not sure I have ever seen a vote to kick that was just for a laugh.

This is not to say I don’t believe it happens. I don’t buy that it’s remotely frequent.

1 Like

I mean, it is a good assumption, but there is no way of really telling that. It is why I don’t speculate on these sort of things, because truthfully, I don’t know the full details of every other player.

For all I know, the OP could be lying about getting kicked out of every dungeon, I have no way to prove it, but at the same time, I have no way to prove what they are saying is the truth either.

All I can do is speculate. Because I have my own experiences from the game, and everyone is going to see things their own way and experience things their own way.

1 Like

The entire campaign about “vote kick is abuse” comes down to this. There are people who are upset about, and misunderstand, the Social Contract. I suspect at this point it is purposeful. As in, if they can get in trouble in-game for using profanity and insults, then they want to take it to the extreme and pretend that nobody can ever have a bad day in game - therefore kicking is “abuse”. They pretend that Blizzard is somehow violating their own rules by allowing players to remove a person from a group. Highly false, but that is the argument that they are pushing.

Notice the most vocal are NOT INTERESTED in talking about actual reductions in the duration of the debuff, or making sure the cooldown timer on kicking works. They don’t want solutions. They want to focus on the whole kick being “toxic” as a concept.

The funniest part is that the Social Contract just restates the Code of Conduct we have always had. It was not against the rules to kick 10 years ago, and it is not against the rules now. Nothing that is in the Social Contract is different than it was in 2004.

-The Social Contract is two parts. Part one is NOT ENFORCEABLE - that is the part that says be nice and you will have a better game experience. Part 2 is a restatement of the core EULA/TOS from 2004. No profanity, masked profanity, slurs, insults, etc. That you have to follow the code of conduct.

Part 1: Suggestions to play nicely and get along. There are no options to report for these things because they are just SUGGESTIONS. :arrow_down:
Imgur

Part 2: RULES we have to follow. See the section in RED brackets. These are based on the 2004 EULA/TOS and the current Code of Conduct. Nothing has changed at all. :arrow_down:

Imgur

2004 TOU/EULA

Original User Manual from 2004 https://bnetcmsus-a.akamaihd.net/cms/template_resource/LO0VQ46XB1281555957773363.pdf - which has the EULA at the end. It points to the requirements for accepting Terms of Use with the website for it. I selected the first archived Wayback Machine TOU for WoW from 2004.

https://web.archive.org/web/20041217101250/http://www.worldofwarcraft.com/legal/termsofuse.shtml

I have copied out the relevant sections. Yes, it included hateful names and speech as well as profanity, masked profanity, spam, etc.

When engaging in Chat in World of Warcraft, or otherwise utilizing World of Warcraft, you may not:

  • (i) Transmit or post sexually explicit images or other content or language which in the sole discretion of Blizzard Entertainment is deemed to be offensive; nor shall you transmit any unlawful, harmful, threatening, abusive, harassing, defamatory, vulgar, obscene, hateful, or racially, ethnically or otherwise objectionable content or language, nor may you use a misspelling or an alternative spelling to circumvent the content and language restrictions listed above;
  • (vii) Harass, threaten, stalk, embarrass or cause distress, unwanted attention or discomfort to another user of World of Warcraft or other person or entity; or

Things that are part of normal gameplay using the tools of the game that the Devs put in does not “violate” any of those rules despite attempts to act like they do. They even put in a special articles for PvP and for Kicks because people tried to argue “but I am uncomfortable make it stop”. The intent of the rules is to prevent social abuse from other players. Not to make every aspect of the gameplay happy.

This is for people who tried to argue PvP that they willingly opt into is somehow “abuse” or against the rules.

7 Likes

One of the most ridiculous kicks I’ve ever seen was in a classic leveling dungeon

Tank literally passes a boss that cannot be skipped and charged ahead and pulled a bunch of packs and then that boss came out and his buddies and they all murdered us LOL

So we run back and as he’s running past that boss again we tell him that you can’t skip this boss it has to be completed before we can move on

Well I got kicked for mentioning it and then the mage in the group contacted me a few minutes later and said that they kicked him too for telling this circus clown tank that we can’t skip that boss lol

Another kick was one where I get a drop from a boss and the tank literally stops the run and demands my drop. Again this is a classic leveling dungeon so it’s not gear that matters in the least LOL he just wanted my drop for some weird reason

Had he asked nicely I would have given it to him but when you demand something for me you’re not getting it I don’t care I’ll destroy it first and sure enough got vote kicked for not handing this juvenile my gear drop LOL

Another Kik was laughed at for playing Panda and kicked
Another kick was laughed at for my transmog choices and kicked
Another funny one was a DPS was trolling the group and running ahead and pulling packs back and causing wipes and clearly the troll popped the kick with my name in it and got me kicked instead of himself which okay that particular kick was kind of funny and how it happened but still abusing the system to kick players who have done nothing wrong

I appreciate the literature Mirasol as always but I’m also of the mind that Blizzard guidelines are just that, guidelines, and are always subject to feedback based change, so while it’s important to let people know what the stated rules are it’s a bit redundant to just keep repeating them as though that should end the discussion.

3 Likes