So everyone’s complaints with the game are their own personal problems they impose on themselves and can’t possibly be bad design choices?
I don’t play for WoWs vertical progression anymore as it’s a hopeless grind. I get money’s worth in RP, story, and running through achievements, mogging, etc.
I really don’t care at this point to be higher than welfare gear as the drive to make us play longer for rapidly diminishing gains doesn’t work for me.
This turned me off to D3 rifting and hoping for ancient gear.
TF/WF and all the other gear RNGs are a hopeless battle of lucky vs nolifers. This is why i like horizontal progression and the emphasis should be on sets.
That’s the whole point of War/Titanforging. Have the RNG keep them guessing and grinding. Yeah, I got the piece I wanted from that raid, but maybe the next one will forge up. Maybe I’ll get a socket. It’s a cheap way to try and get more mileage out of less content.
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I’ve answered that question already after we started this banter in a response to someone else in this thread, however I’ll do so again.
ML being available would impact me as I am raiding. I’m much more casual about it nowadays than I used to be, but if it came back we’d have to switch. Being able to manually control loot distribution is a no brainer, whether we like that choice and all that it entails or not. Beyond that, I like the onus being on the player to make the decision to pass loot they don’t want. It empowers individuals and removes power from the guild as a whole, which as far as I’m concerned is a good thing.
No more blatant abuse of ML, no more drama over how big of an upgrade some item is for someone, no more micromanaging loot distribution or managing EPGP or DKP or whatever systems people use nowadays. Now each player is responsible for passing loot out if they don’t want/need it. I’ve been on loot councils and had to argue against people who were trying to play favorites with their pals. I’ve been the guy getting the whispers for EPGP bids. I’ve seen guilds almost collapse because an officer that was ML took something and bailed on the guild. I’ve been in guilds where trials wouldn’t get loot over people’s alts for weeks at a time. I’ve seen people trying to game the system by coordinating with each other on bids or stockpiling points to spend on the best of the best while forgoing loot on the way. People are crap at micromanaging loot and I’m glad it’s not a thing anymore.
I agree the system isn’t perfect and I’d love to see them improve it. A built in score based on stat weights or something that was used as the bar of “is this better” instead of raw ilvl would be awesome, along with fixing quirky stuff like a 1h + offhand for casters can be higher ilvl than a staff and I can’t pass the staff to someone. Whatever, we could spitball ideas all day long here about how to improve it. But this method, as far as I’m concerned, it’s far better than leaving it in the hands of people.
And in the end, the rate that we acquire gear is entirely arbitrary. It’s all psychology, whether the end result of how you feel is more important than whether the methodology is actually better numerically simply because of the facade of control. We’re not going to progress at a rate any faster than what Blizzard wants us to.
That’s my answer. Rather longwinded and I only touched on the main points previously in this thread. I had to trim it because I could go on for a while. Now you know, though I’m certain this isn’t going to change anything.
It does when you’re trying to argue with someone that’s only thinking for themselves, rather than the playerbase as a whole.
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If it’s just the principle of the matter, well, you seem to care about things that are so rare that they are statistically nonexistent. I don’t. I also don’t sweat it that someone who I know plays the lottery and they could actually win too. Because they probably won’t. And if they do, that’s awesome for them. I’m not going to be upset because I didn’t play the lottery too.
Your rant makes little sense. You say your guild would have to switch to ML, implying that it’s a better system for the group to be able to distribute loot to the people who will make the group stronger overall. Then you say that choice should be forced on the individual instead.
Do you think they raid logger Jimmy knows what specs to gear up for potential progression road blocks they will run in to? Or do you think the people who do all the preparation, recruiting and planning for the guild could make a better decision?
Anyways, you seem like an extremely selfish player who cares more about their own loot than their groups progression. I can’t blame you though, you have the type of solo player mentality Blizz is aiming the game at.
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Yeah, considering what I’ve seen you write I completely understand that you fail to comprehend simple concepts in my post. But I wasn’t talking to you, I was explicitly responding to someone else.
Your post does highlight my point though. You think the people you raid with are incapable of determining what gear they should use. That’s pretty sad. No, I don’t want or need anyone holding my hand. At the same time, I don’t want to hold the hands of my guildies. They’re perfectly capable of making those choices on their own. If they want help or advice they know they can ask me and I’ll happily assist them.
But I’m the selfish solo player that Blizzard is catering the game towards! Yep! Totally!
p.s. please take your meds now
If only that was the case with Personal Loot. Getting a 5 ilvl increase with a stat line that makes it a 20% downgrade is the worst feeling you can experience in an organized setting. The gear is completely useless for me, but to someone else it could have been a 15 item level increase and a major percentage of an upgrade.
It sounds like your own bad experiences with the system makes you believe the only good outcome of loot is to solely rely on Personal Loot. You said yourself you raid and play casually so you don’t have to deal with any of this anymore, nothing would stop you from raiding with a guild that continues to use Personal Loot if they did decide to reimplement Master Loot.
The current method isn’t in the hand of people, if it was we’d still be giving the choice to choose what Loot Distribution options are best suited for the specific group.
Except giving control over which gets what makes us progress immensely faster than just having a pure random fiasco. Trinkets and Azerite pieces are the best example for this, now nothing is really Draught of Souls Tier, but getting the ability to pick who gets what major upgrades first depending on the current content is huge in Mythic Progression. Looking at Crucible of Storms coming up, the gear from there all have unique trinkets passives, from weapons to armor, and some of these with likely be detrimental to clearing the Aszhara Raid of 8.2, but not being able to pick who gets what makes more gear go to waste than not.
Caring only for yourself is selfish, and having zero trust in anyone else in the playerbase to handle loot doesn’t help either.
You don’t understand how raiding guilds work so it’s impossible for you to understand. Keep the petty insults coming though!
I appreciate your response. We do have a different philosophy on the group environment. A good loot council would solve your issues, but you’ve been burned out on those systems. It’s just simpler for you and many other players. (It is a strong point of PL – it is really simple.)
Which is something I hope Bornakk or any other CM that is monitoring this thread understands. Not everyone wanted to use the simpler loot option when it was introduced, and certainly nobody wanted to have the simpler method forced on them.
Personal loot has it’s place, but Master Loot even after it’s removal still has a place and it deserves to that spot.
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Forging just keeps older content relevant. That’s all.
The only issue is when more ‘hardcore’ players get upset that ‘baddies’ lucked out and got something that ‘don’t deserve’.
In other words, pure envy.
That’s largely how I consider it, a headache managing that I don’t have to manage anymore or deal with the drama of. Again, I’m not saying that good loot councils don’t exist. I’ve had just as many good guilds (at least as far as loot distribution is concerned) as I have bad experiences. But too many people pretend that bad ones are rare in these conversations. I’ve been playing mmo’s for about 2 decades now through 6? 7? different games.
Not having to tell people things like, “no, you can’t take a relic that might be an upgrade if it has the perfect crucible trait over someone who it is regardless of what crucible traits it has” is a blessing. As is not having to engage when people use the fact that other people are nice and will pass on loot if someone else wants something so they constantly announce how big of an upgrade something is or those same nice people won’t take bid/roll on loot if anyone else takes it and they end up 15+ ilvl behind the rest of the raid. That one gets my goat a lot, even though it’s people being too damn nice.
Please read the thread so you can see what the actual problems with Titanforging are.
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Maybe for some, for me it’s more the issue of “I’m fully Heroic Geared now, time to try out some higher end content for the first time.”, without consideration that maybe just because they have the gear they can head into someone’s +10 or a Mythic Raid. Because this does happen, some people get incredibly lucky with what they have drop for them, and try and slip into Timed or Higher End content without the capability of performing properly in one, which is why RaiderIO and Logs are very important right now.
And then they equip that item in all possible slots and the item served its function as intended. Ohnos.
So this is where you try to summarily dismiss my opinion with babble. Cool.
You do realize that if they changed it back to ML we’d still get unusable loot right? That doesn’t magically go away if ML is an option. Sure pieces can be funneled to players under that system. It’s also entirely possible to go a dozen raids and never see a specific trinket or weapon at all. Either way, the rate we progress is entirely arbitrary, whether we have ML or PL. Blizzard sets that.
Taking snippets of a singular response out of context and trying to perform a psychological profile of me makes you look silly. It’s my opinion. Whether you like it or agree with it isn’t relevant. It’s not any less valid than your opinion on the subject. If you preferred ML and want it back, cool, good for you, I’m going to be vocally opposing the restoration of ML at any opportunity.
So it’s function is entirely to be vendored, nice system. Not to mention the opportunity of multiple 5 ilvl increases that end up all being vendored due to improper stat lines.
Quoting nothing to try and dismiss my counterargument. Cool.
Getting disenchantable gear isn’t unusable. Getting disenchantable loot that is untradable on someone who doesn’t have enchanting is unusable, and it’s just vendor trash.
The rate we progress was determined by what loot methods we chose to play with in both WoD and Legion. We should still have that option. Selfish players were very vocal however so now we’re all stuck with Personal Loot, whether more considerate players like it or not.
Because telling someone to take their medication is definitely something I took out of context there?
Give me a break, your only grudges against Master Loot is that you didn’t like watching gear go to more important players or rolls.
If you can vocally oppose you restoration of Master Loot, I can sure as hell be vocal towards getting it restored. Your simple minded excuses won’t dissuade reason.
I know I’m late to the party here but Bornakk I hope you’re still reading this thread.
There’s a lot of hyperbole going around here. I can’t speak for other players obviously, so I’ll speak for myself. I do not like Titanforging, hands down. I might be accepting of Warforging capped at +5 as a nice bonus but the fact that the easiest end game content has a chance at dropping the best items in the game is a problem. There’s a reason that no other game in existence(that I can think of) has a similar system.
It actually does make me feel bad to get a high TF when raiding. I got a 390 cape in Uldir off of Normal Vectis and I was so disgusted by it that I stopped playing the game for almost 3 months. Now granted it would be disingenuous of me to claim that as the sole reason I took a break, but it was definitely the last straw. I logged off that night feeling frustrated and cursing the system. It wasn’t fair to the other members of my team who put in the same amount of effort, or even more, as I did on that kill. I couldn’t even trade it away to someone more deserving because of the Personal Loot restrictions that you guys have decided must be in place to protect us from ourselves.
Now, the larger problem here is the ease of earning high item level gear in this game, and while TF/WF is admittedly only a small contributor to that, it’s definitely a factor. Item level isn’t appropriately adjusted for the difficulty of the content you can earn it in. In other words it’s far too easy for a player to out-gear their skill level.
Why is this a problem? It trivializes content far too soon and pushes players into content they either aren’t good enough to run or aren’t comfortable enough to even try. For example M+. I’d say my skill level puts me solidly in the +4-6 range, however my item level tells me that anything below a +8 just flat out isn’t worth doing. I don’t feel comfortable pushing those high keys with pug groups because the community is so toxic against players such as myself who have reasonably high item levels but without the skill or M+ experience to back it up.
Same thing with Normal and Heroic raids. I already out-gear Normal BoD(and have for about 2 weeks now) and I haven’t even cleared it yet!
Better gear is no longer a meaningful enough reward for doing harder content, yet nothing has been introduced to take it’s place. For me personally it makes me not want to play as much or push myself harder as a player. Why should I? This character is my main, I raid 2 nights a week, do my Emissary every day, weekly quest when it’s not PvP or Pet Battles, Warfront quest when it’s up, I try to do at least one relevant M+ a week and my item level is 391. My Druid on the other hand, never gets taken into a raid or M+, only does maybe 3 or 4 Emissary’s every week, I might do the Warfront quest if it’s up and I’m bored, and never does the weekly quest yet his item level is 384.
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See, you know that’s not true. The point is, explicitly as Blizzard explained, to ensure that people cannot pass items that are upgrades. And unfortunately this is the side effect of that, sometimes items with non-optimal secondaries are higher ilvl but not actual upgrades. So that slot ilvl increase is still recorded so if they get another of the same ilvl or less they can trade it. Why lie about it? It doesn’t make you sound witty to be snarky and blatantly dishonest when discussing it. It doesn’t score you “cool points” or anything.
You didn’t present a counter argument. You tried to explain why my opinion is wrong. Let me repeat. You tried to argue that something that is subjective is wrong. i.e. “blah blah” because you said a whole lot of nothing because you apparently are unable to differentiate subjective and objective reality. I’m sorry for you ![:frowning:](https://d38bqls1q93fod.cloudfront.net/en/wow/images/emoji/twitter/frowning.png?v=6" ":frowning:")
Unusable is being hyperbolic. Particularly with the high ilvl craftables in the game atm and this cool new feature called the Scrapper that they implemented, oh wait, it’s been here the entire expansion. Are you sure you play this game?
You do realize that Blizzard changes drop rates based on…how fast they want us progressing right? They set the loot tables with all kinds of metrics in mind to ensure that we have the right % of azerite and the right % of weapons on the loot tables. It’s all arbitrary dude.
That was a snarky response from me to someone who has constantly thrown snark my way. Plus they write like they’re drunk and/or under heavy sedation or possibly don’t speak English as a primary language. Some of the stuff they wrote just didn’t make any sense. That wasn’t to you, but if you were triggered by it, cool I guess?
lol, okay pal, you believe whatever you need to believe. OoOoOoO I’m all raging over here about the many times I didn’t get teh loots I deserved OoOoOoOoO.
You do realize ad hominem is the exact opposite of reason right? No?